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rewire 410HE for 2 ohms for use with SVT?

4stringabuser

4stringabuser

Aug 23, 2019
14
11
#1
First of all, I tried searching, as I assumed this wouldn't be hugely uncommon, but all of the posts have folks wanting to make it 4 ohms (which we know we cant do with what comes in there).

info: My stage amp currently has been SVT-VR, and I have a '73 at home, too. Ive got the 'fridge (too big, plus I dont have a road case for it), a pair of 410HE, as well as a pair of 115E. I have been using a Bergantino HD410 on the road for the last couple of years, but while that is a fantastic sounding box, it doesn't really have that "classic" 'peg sound... at all, lol. Berg has a bottom shelf port and digs deep. Too deep. With the tube SVT, there is a lot of <80hz stuff happening that is difficult to EQ out. And, I dont use the horn at all. The HE cab will fit in the road case for the Berg. Specs-wise, the Berg stomps all over the HE, but......

I am looking at my options with gear I already own, and I think the sealed aspect of the fridge (and the HE) is a lot of what I am missing with the berg or say a 410HLF (which I def dont prefer to the Berg, and do not own), but I question if the HE will be "enough". I have briefly tried it with the impedance mismatch, but I am not really willing to push my luck for long. I dig the tight(er) low end, though.

Has anyone here done this? I know, I know, try it and see... but that'll be at least a couple hours worth of project, at best, and if more than 2 people tell me not to waste my time, I probably won't lol. In my brief trial, I didnt push the rig hard enough to make the speakers fart, but that doesn't mean they wont when I am outside and can air it out a little. Thermal rating is 400w, but I feel sure the sealed design puts farting power much lower, given enough bottom eq. And what about the horn? Of course it will be less sensitive, and I dont use it anyway. Should I just bypass the crossover network entirely and run the woofers full range? I am not sure if they already run full-range despite the horn network.

lastly, I have the pair of 410HE and 115E because they are different--- on set is Viet-made, and one set USA. They def do NOT sound the same (one set is noticeably brighter). Would one be preferable over the other for what I am proposing?

thanks for reading all of this!
 
#4
For the 8 ohm 410HE. you could rewire it for your amp at 2 ohms, but I recommend carefully labeling things so that down the road it's not incorrectly assumed to be 8 ohms and damage another amp.

Be sure to keep all of the polarities correct.
 
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#5
Do we know for a fact that the 410HE has four 8 ohm drivers wired series-parallel? If that's correct, then yes, it could be rewired in parallel for 2 ohms.

However, my understanding is that the 8x10 fridge uses 32 ohm drivers all wired in parallel for 4 ohms. If those same drivers are used in the 410HE (which wouldn't surprise me) then they're already in parallel and 8 ohms is the lowest impedance you can get.

Pull one driver out, disconnect at least one lead from it and measure its DC resistance - should be roughly 6 ohms for an 8 ohm nominal impedance.
 
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#6
rickdog said:
Do we know for a fact that the 410HE has four 8 ohm drivers wired series-parallel? If that's correct, then yes, it could be rewired in parallel for 2 ohms.

However, my understanding is that the 8x10 fridge uses 32 ohm drivers all wired in parallel for 4 ohms. If those same drivers are used in the 410HE (which wouldn't surprise me) then they're already in parallel and 8 ohms is the lowest impedance you can get.

Pull one driver out, disconnect at least one lead from it and measure its DC resistance - should be roughly 6 ohms for an 8 ohm nominal impedance.
Click to expand...

Good point, you may very well be correct that the stock drivers are 32 ohms. If that's the case, it's an 8 ohm cabinet with no other practical options.
 
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#10
4stringabuser said:
First of all, I tried searching, as I assumed this wouldn't be hugely uncommon, but all of the posts have folks wanting to make it 4 ohms (which we know we cant do with what comes in there).

info: My stage amp currently has been SVT-VR, and I have a '73 at home, too. Ive got the 'fridge (too big, plus I dont have a road case for it), a pair of 410HE, as well as a pair of 115E. I have been using a Bergantino HD410 on the road for the last couple of years, but while that is a fantastic sounding box, it doesn't really have that "classic" 'peg sound... at all, lol. Berg has a bottom shelf port and digs deep. Too deep. With the tube SVT, there is a lot of <80hz stuff happening that is difficult to EQ out. And, I dont use the horn at all. The HE cab will fit in the road case for the Berg. Specs-wise, the Berg stomps all over the HE, but......

I am looking at my options with gear I already own, and I think the sealed aspect of the fridge (and the HE) is a lot of what I am missing with the berg or say a 410HLF (which I def dont prefer to the Berg, and do not own), but I question if the HE will be "enough". I have briefly tried it with the impedance mismatch, but I am not really willing to push my luck for long. I dig the tight(er) low end, though.

Has anyone here done this? I know, I know, try it and see... but that'll be at least a couple hours worth of project, at best, and if more than 2 people tell me not to waste my time, I probably won't lol. In my brief trial, I didnt push the rig hard enough to make the speakers fart, but that doesn't mean they wont when I am outside and can air it out a little. Thermal rating is 400w, but I feel sure the sealed design puts farting power much lower, given enough bottom eq. And what about the horn? Of course it will be less sensitive, and I dont use it anyway. Should I just bypass the crossover network entirely and run the woofers full range? I am not sure if they already run full-range despite the horn network.

lastly, I have the pair of 410HE and 115E because they are different--- on set is Viet-made, and one set USA. They def do NOT sound the same (one set is noticeably brighter). Would one be preferable over the other for what I am proposing?

thanks for reading all of this!
Click to expand...


I don't necessarily recommend it, but there are posts here on TalkBass where the designer of the SVT said it is fine at 8 ohms. The impedance mismatch is harder on the tubes and will reduce how much power the amp can make.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/us...0s-blue-line-ampeg-svt.1039954/#post-15280919

IMHO, if you have a pair of 410HEs and a pair of 15Es, chose the cab you prefer and run a pair, so the amp see 4 ohms.

The modern SVT should have an impedance switch. So you can plug both cabs into the amp and set the switch to 4 ohms.

upload_2023-10-9_18-11-5.png


The vintage amp most likely has switching jacks that configures the amp for 2 ohms if you use the Ext output.

upload_2023-10-9_18-13-21.png

Use only the main speaker out on the left, and daisy chain two 8 ohm cabs for 4 ohms.

The jack panel on your cabs is probably labeled with two inputs. Use one jack as the input and use the second jack as the through to the next cab.

Pretty sure the woofers in the 410HE are run full range. The tweeter has an HPF, but there is no LPF on the woofers.
 
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#11
4stringabuser said:
First of all, I tried searching, as I assumed this wouldn't be hugely uncommon, but all of the posts have folks wanting to make it 4 ohms (which we know we cant do with what comes in there).

info: My stage amp currently has been SVT-VR, and I have a '73 at home, too. Ive got the 'fridge (too big, plus I dont have a road case for it), a pair of 410HE, as well as a pair of 115E. I have been using a Bergantino HD410 on the road for the last couple of years, but while that is a fantastic sounding box, it doesn't really have that "classic" 'peg sound... at all, lol. Berg has a bottom shelf port and digs deep. Too deep. With the tube SVT, there is a lot of <80hz stuff happening that is difficult to EQ out. And, I dont use the horn at all. The HE cab will fit in the road case for the Berg. Specs-wise, the Berg stomps all over the HE, but......

I am looking at my options with gear I already own, and I think the sealed aspect of the fridge (and the HE) is a lot of what I am missing with the berg or say a 410HLF (which I def dont prefer to the Berg, and do not own), but I question if the HE will be "enough". I have briefly tried it with the impedance mismatch, but I am not really willing to push my luck for long. I dig the tight(er) low end, though.

Has anyone here done this? I know, I know, try it and see... but that'll be at least a couple hours worth of project, at best, and if more than 2 people tell me not to waste my time, I probably won't lol. In my brief trial, I didnt push the rig hard enough to make the speakers fart, but that doesn't mean they wont when I am outside and can air it out a little. Thermal rating is 400w, but I feel sure the sealed design puts farting power much lower, given enough bottom eq. And what about the horn? Of course it will be less sensitive, and I dont use it anyway. Should I just bypass the crossover network entirely and run the woofers full range? I am not sure if they already run full-range despite the horn network.

lastly, I have the pair of 410HE and 115E because they are different--- on set is Viet-made, and one set USA. They def do NOT sound the same (one set is noticeably brighter). Would one be preferable over the other for what I am proposing?

thanks for reading all of this!
Click to expand...
Don't try to re-wire it. You just end up having half your speakers out of phase.

Just replace the speakers in it, with 16ohm speakers. Instead of the 32ohm ones it comes with.

Or, you could just go with the 212av. It's an awesome cabinet, and was made for your situation. It's a 4ohm cabinet, so you can just use one with an SVT, when you don't want to lug that around. It's 50lbs, or so, and sounds like an ampeg.
 
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#14
Wasnex said:
I don't necessarily recommend it, but there are posts here on TalkBass where the designer of the SVT said it is fine at 8 ohms. The impedance mismatch is harder on the tubes and will reduce how much power the amp can make.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/us...0s-blue-line-ampeg-svt.1039954/#post-15280919

IMHO, if you have a pair of 410HEs and a pair of 15Es, chose the cab you prefer and run a pair, so the amp see 4 ohms.

The modern SVT should have an impedance switch. So you can plug both cabs into the amp and set the switch to 4 ohms.

View attachment 5214973

The vintage amp most likely has switching jacks that configures the amp for 2 ohms if you use the Ext output.

View attachment 5214974
Use only the main speaker out on the left, and daisy chain two 8 ohm cabs for 4 ohms.

The jack panel on your cabs is probably labeled with two inputs. Use one jack as the input and use the second jack as the through to the next cab.

Pretty sure the woofers in the 410HE are run full range. The tweeter has an HPF, but there is no LPF on the woofers.
Click to expand...
Yeah... And I suppose I already knew the answer was use the 810 or 2 cabs... sadly, I only have one 4x10 sized road case... and... well, yeah... I was hoping to cheap out lol.
One day, I'll happen upon an 810 case someone wants gone. I guess in the end I don't want it bad enough to buy the live-in case that costs as much as the cab inside is worth. Plus, nobody wants to push that thing!
The Berg is a fine cabinet, I just want to do something different. HPF pedal it is haha! Already in my cart.
 
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#15
JeezyMcNuggles said:
Don't try to re-wire it. You just end up having half your speakers out of phase.

Just replace the speakers in it, with 16ohm speakers. Instead of the 32ohm ones it comes with.

Or, you could just go with the 212av. It's an awesome cabinet, and was made for your situation. It's a 4ohm cabinet, so you can just use one with an SVT, when you don't want to lug that around. It's 50lbs, or so, and sounds like an ampeg.
Click to expand...
man, I would love to try one of those 212AV cabs... I have never played through one with any amp. Of course, "wants" aside, I need another bass cab like I need a 2nd butthole, but......
 
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#16
moot point if they really are 32Ω speakers but with a theoretical 8Ω speaker-loaded cab you can wire up the cab with switching 1/4" jacks such that you have one 8Ω jack and one 2Ω jack
 
#17
4stringabuser said:
man, I would love to try one of those 212AV cabs... I have never played through one with any amp. Of course, "wants" aside, I need another bass cab like I need a 2nd butthole, but......
Click to expand...
Well, you seem to have a lot of options. Me, I'd take the ones I'm not using, and bring them to guitar center. Then, use the money and the 10% off you get from the trade-ins to pick one up.
 
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#19
I'd get a HPF, learn how to use it with the Berg, when I had a SVT-CL, I used my FDeck pedal, it solved a lotta issues, when using a SVT and my Super Bassman, I have a Berg HS410, and I currently use a Subway 800+, ( which has a built in HPF, got rid of the SVT, but kept the Super Bassman, and with the HPF and the voice control on the 800+, you'd be surprised at what you can do with that combination ) just spend some time with a HPF, & the SVT, you'll find your tone.
 
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