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ric vs jazz

Listen to what Sir Paul did with his Ric.
Lot's of variables in the tone production. I would think that string choice (flat or round) and finger vs. pick are the issues that make the most difference.
The real question to ask, IMHO on all these tone issues (bass, wood, strings, amp) is whether or not the general public can 1.) tell a difference, and 2.) cares.
I don't care what the general public can tell a difference or cares about. I play for me, first and foremost.

IME, I can get a P to sound closer to a Ric than a J. YMMV.
Same. But my most used setting on my Rickenbackers is with the bridge pickup solo'd, which to me sounds a lot more like a P-bass with a bit more high midrange content than it does like a Jazz.

I had one, returned it, missed it, bought a second, and then I returned that one.

Rics look and sound great, and I think their necks are really unique and nice feeling. However, those slab tops can be a major PITA, as can their bridges. I also found them to have a lot of sharp edges.
The slab body is only a problem if you play with your right arm in a chicken wing position. Move your elbow forward and the body edges are no longer a problem at all.

That said, the 4004 basses and the 4003S both have contoured body edges.

These are the two basses I use in my main bands, and I'm gonna say: definitely not!

Based on pickup placement alone...

A Ric can't sound like a Jazz neck pickup solo-ed
A Ric can't sound like a Jazz bridge pickup solo-ed (but why would you want to?)
A Jazz can't sound like a Ric bridge pickup solo-ed
A Jazz can't sound like a Ric neck pickup solo-ed

With both pickups cranked, a Ric will sound deeper and a Jazz will sound clearer. And I'm comparing a Jazz with louder and more midrange-y aftermarket pickups (i.e. more Ric-like than any stock Jazz pickups I've come across).
Exactly. The setting on both of them that makes them hard to tell apart is with both pickups all the way up.

But in my experience, that's the only setting in which they sound alike. In every other setting they have, they each sound completely different. This is primarily due to pickup position.

Then of course there's the issue of which pickups you're comparing. Both Fender and Rickenbacker have put a variety of different pickups in their basses over the years. With Fender, at least we're only discussing one model of bass, and I think we all are agreed on which configuration of Jazz Bass we're discussing (the one with two single coils), but even there, the exact specs of Fender single coil pickups has varied over the decades since the Jazz first came out. With Rickenbacker, that's a whole company, and they've produced several different basses with a few different kinds of pickups. The earliest being the single horseshoe pickup in the model 4000, followed by adding a toaster top single coil pickup in the neck position for the upgraded model, the 4001. This changed over to two high-gain single coils (though the output of these has varied a lot over the years) that still come as standard on the 4003 and 4003S. However, there was also the 4005 bass, which at first used two toaster-top pickups, and then two high gain pickups, albeit in drastically different positions from the 4001. Then there was the 4002 bass, which used two humbucking pickups (of a side by side design) in approximately the same positions as a Fender Jazz. Additionally, there was the short lived 3000 series, which also had humbuckers, IIRC. Then there was the 2000 series, which again had humbuckers. And the currently made 4004 basses, which also have humbuckers (but of a different design than the 4002; Rickenbacker has made a couple different designs of humbucking pickups). Then there are the basses with the reissue horseshoe pickup and toaster pickup, which are a bit different than the originals.

So you kind of have to be specific about which Fender you're comparing to which Rickenbacker.

An interesting comparison video, not as much difference in tone as I expected to hear.

Both are set to both pickups, the most similar setting.

It was interesting to see Geddy get that sound playing fingerstyle on a jazz
I don't think fingerstyle versus pick sounds nearly as different as most people on TB seem to believe. I use both, and get about the same sound.

do you think that would be doable with master volume, master tone and a couple of 3way switches?
Maybe if one of them is a series switch.

Using the rear pickup of a Jazz Bass you can definitely get a Ric like tone.
That being said, I'm glad I own a Ric, J Bass, and a P Bass!
I don't agree about the bridge pickup on a Jazz sounding like a Rickenbacker. Sounds nothing like it to me, and uniquely "bridge pickup on a Jazz."

what neck do you folks like better?
Rickenbacker. I like how the neck doesn't taper that much compared to most basses.

I like to angle the neck pickup to favour the top strings and the treble one to favour the lower ones.
Growl at the bottom end and thicker sound higher up.
That's a unique approach I'd never heard of or thought of before. Cool idea!
 
(No need to shout...)
Well, all Rics have a basic sound, but I think he was referring to details and nuances.
I think that's what he meant when he mentioned the "CS" model sounding "nothing like" his.
I never had the opportunity to play his, nor to compare it to mine, so I can't vouch for the uniqueness of his.
I do know that he had the treble horseshoe re-magentised at some point, which would have affected the sound.

Cap locks were on and I was too lazy to retype ...

Chris was a truly great player ... but some of his "knowledge" about Rickenbackers is suspect ... Over on the two Rickenbacker forums we used to "wink and nod" about some of his statements ...

The 4001CS is a 90s 4003 with white paint and reissue parts made to look like the old bass.

1960s 4001 basses have weak necks and weak pickups. But their weakness is also their charm. They just "feel right" in your hands and they have a certain sound. I liked my old 1968 4001 best when I put in modern pickups and removed the .0047 cap. Those basses were designed for old 50 watt bass amps. They also had 500k ohm tone pots on single coil pickups.
 
The Yes RRHOF show with Geddy playing Roundabout on a Jazz should show that it's not the bass.

Totally disagree. In that show his Jazz never sounded more like a Jazz. It had that very distinct scoop sound that a Jazz gets when you play it through a clean or almost clean amp, and it didn't sound like he was using as much overdrive as he does with Rush, which is probably why. I really don't think a Ric can sound like that.

what neck do you folks like better?

I have a Jaguar with a Jazz neck as well as a Ric and I am comfortable on either one. Just takes a minute to adjust a little. I think it's a bit moot anyway, since it seems there is no consistency to the neck shapes on Rics. If you don't like one Ric, just try another until you find one that is comfortable.
 
He claimed that the repeated refinishes and planing wallpaper off his bass resulted in a thinner, lighter body, convincingly translating that into tone is a tone wood debate I'll avoid! Didn't he also mess with the electronics to get the bi-amp thing going in a kind of proto Ric-O-Sound? The few interviews I've seen with him discussing gear made me think he didn't find it a subject of great interest, he left it to his bass techs. There's no doubt he got a unique sound out of it trying to emulate Entwhistle's trebly sound. He's quoted as saying the CS model sounded "nothing like" his original.

My 1968 4001 was thinner and lighter with the original finish ... no two pieces of wood are exactly alike
 
I never get the "Geddy always sounds the same" statement. His tone is all over the map. But it is also hard to relate that back to specific bass types in general use because he plays so agressively and with such a colored signal chain.

I feel like people who think Geddy always sounds the same would be unimpressed by the Jelly Belly factory tour. "What, there was more than one flavor of jelly bean? I didn't notice."
 
Being a bassist for as long as I've been, it's kind of embarrassing to admit that I've only really ever played one Rickenbacker bass (the one that is currently mine & mine FOREVER).. but it's always interesting to notice how individual instruments have their own fingerprint-like tonalities...

I've always been a Precision Guy but Jazz basses have always been on my radar and in my life, which makes sense because they are plentiful in number and by no means at all "rare" or hard to come by.

The first Jazz I ever played was around the time I got my first Precision, and the overwhelming feeling that hit me was "this neck is ungodly thin" -- this was an early '90's MIM model and my experience since then is that the USA models are definitely more "there" as far as width and chunk at the first fret. I think one thing that Rics and Jazzes have in common is that the necks can vary in pretty extreme degrees from instrument to instrument.

Tonally, all of the Jazz basses I've played have had the same overall sound - some more mid resonant and some that straight up sound like a Precision let off its leash. They're pretty versatile and I'll probably own one at some point but the one thing that kills me is that some are literal boat anchors and they're all (to me, personally) not at all comfortable to play while sitting down.

There's something to be said about the construction of a 4003 (and other model Rics) that gives them their signature sound and I don't think it's a thing that can be replicated with a bolt-on constructed instrument. There's a natural resonance that's just "there" even unplugged. It's an amazing thing to experience while playing, there are so many crazy harmonics and overtones that just come out of my Ric while playing and really digging in that I've never heard come from any of the Precisions or Jazzes I've played.

LONG STORY SHORT (lol)
Jazz basses are great but if you're looking for the Ric sound, you won't find it in a Jazz bass. You can pepper your tone with preamps & effects but you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not just picking up a 4003/4001/4003s and having a blast & sounding amazing. IMO
 
Interesting that 6 pages so far and no one has mentioned Tool first two albums, Paul D Amore using a Ric. His signal chain was much more organic than Chancelors, In retrospect, looking at it, I dont think a Jazz through the same amp and Di with the same strings would result in a similar enough tone to fool anyone. Chancelor has a very similar tone, but with a Wal and a lot of effects.
 
Interesting that 6 pages so far and no one has mentioned Tool first two albums, Paul D Amore using a Ric. His signal chain was much more organic than Chancelors, In retrospect, looking at it, I dont think a Jazz through the same amp and Di with the same strings would result in a similar enough tone to fool anyone. Chancelor has a very similar tone, but with a Wal and a lot of effects.

True, but he did reportedly use an Ovation Magnum on the Opiate EP, which often gets mistaken for the Ric.

Not a Jazz, though. :)
 
Interesting that 6 pages so far and no one has mentioned Tool first two albums, Paul D Amore using a Ric. His signal chain was much more organic than Chancelors, In retrospect, looking at it, I dont think a Jazz through the same amp and Di with the same strings would result in a similar enough tone to fool anyone. Chancelor has a very similar tone, but with a Wal and a lot of effects.
Undertow is a seminal Ric album. And you're right- the bass coupled with Paul's playing technique made for a very unique & organic tone-- as much as I'd still love to own and play a Wal, I'm beyond satisfied being a Ric owner and player!
 
Cap locks were on and I was too lazy to retype ...

Chris was a truly great player ... but some of his "knowledge" about Rickenbackers is suspect ... Over on the two Rickenbacker forums we used to "wink and nod" about some of his statements ...

The 4001CS is a 90s 4003 with white paint and reissue parts made to look like the old bass.

1960s 4001 basses have weak necks and weak pickups. But their weakness is also their charm. They just "feel right" in your hands and they have a certain sound. I liked my old 1968 4001 best when I put in modern pickups and removed the .0047 cap. Those basses were designed for old 50 watt bass amps. They also had 500k ohm tone pots on single coil pickups.
Hehe...:)

So, the CS model would sound different to a 60s one; however, the neck pickup is in the right place.

Yes, I think Rics can be a bit fragile, that's true; over the years they've gradually beefed up the neck.

It'd be interesting checking out the variations in sound over the years and maybe even early ones to see if they do vary a lot...

If you liked the 60s one best by making it not sound like a 60s one, then it was your choice. Me, I've got a Seymour Duncan and a Hipshot on a 70s one, so I've done some tinkering about too.
 
Hehe...:)

So, the CS model would sound different to a 60s one; however, the neck pickup is in the right place.

Yes, I think Rics can be a bit fragile, that's true; over the years they've gradually beefed up the neck.

It'd be interesting checking out the variations in sound over the years and maybe even early ones to see if they do vary a lot...

If you liked the 60s one best by making it not sound like a 60s one, then it was your choice. Me, I've got a Seymour Duncan and a Hipshot on a 70s one, so I've done some tinkering about too.

Ya the 4001CS will pretty much sound like a modern 4003 bass.

The modern 4003 is any but fragile ... I convert 4003 basses into 5 string basses and the neck has no problem with an additional string.

Old 70s 4001 basses sound really good with the original pickups but rewired with all 250k ohm pots and no .0047 capacitor
 
I like to angle the neck pickup to favour the top strings and the treble one to favour the lower ones.
Growl at the bottom end and thicker sound higher up.
This sounds like a great idea and I can't believe I never thought of it (especially since I've done exactly the same thing with a baritone). I guess the Ric's pickup mountings are so wacky it just never occurred to me to fuss with them. Thanks!
 
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