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Rickenbacker 4003 modern Hi-Gain vs Toaster

ikay

ikay

Aug 6, 2008
41
17
London, UK
#1
I'm considering swapping the neck Hi-Gain in my 2019 4003S for a reissue Toaster. I've scoured youtube looking for a side-by-side demo of a modern Hi-Gain (11k) and a reissue or vintage Toaster (7.4k) to show the difference in tone but can't find anything. Plenty of vids showing one or the other but I'd really like to hear a direct comparison of the Hi-Gain and Toaster in a more controlled setting. Can anyone post a demo or point me in the right direction?
 
#2
601E7580-07B8-4AE5-BD7C-C95D2CC7DA4E.jpeg
I don’t have a comparison video, but I have used both pickups in various Rickbasses I’ve owned.
The toaster is much clearer in the high frequencies, while also having a nice warm bass tone.
Modern 12k higains have more of a fuzzy snarl with less clarity.
Overall, I prefer the toaster, but I’ve been enjoying a modern higain in the neck position of my Cheyenne for a few years.
I figured the output would be a better match for the hb1 in the bridge. (And it is.)
 
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#3
Thanks Woodyng2, that's useful input. It's hearing them side by side that I'm really after though. Ideally through the same amp and with the same settings to give a direct comparison. I'm surprised I can't find anything to be honest! I'll keep on looking.
 
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#4
Mate, I could put something together for you, but it wouldn't be a totally fair comparison. Just did some digging, and during lockdowns, I was doing some recording stuff with my 4003 before swapping in a toaster pickup. I have just the neck pickup isolated, and could record the new toaster alongside it to do a side-by-each comparison. But the strings on my bass are super dead, whereas the stuff I recorded was with freshly-changed strings, so it wouldn't be a very fair shootout.

I plan on re-stringing it in a couple weeks ahead of a few shows in early December, so I could put down a little recording after the change. I know it's not an immediate solution, but feel free to bug me and I'll make it happen for you!
 
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#5
Hi Michael(?), that would be fantastic, I'd really appreciate it! I listened to a couple of your Ric vs Jazz vids on YT, very interesting. What year is your 4003 and what pickup settings and/or additional eq did you use in the clips?
 
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#6
ikay said:
Hi Michael(?), that would be fantastic, I'd really appreciate it! I listened to a couple of your Ric vs Jazz vids on YT, very interesting. What year is your 4003 and what pickup settings and/or additional eq did you use in the clips?
Click to expand...

Cool, I'll be happy to help you out!

My 4003 is kind of a mutt; it's an '84, but came with all 4001 parts/wiring (1984 was the final transition year from 4001-4003 models, so presumably they were using up old stock on my bass). I've subsequently done plenty to it; installed the push/pull for the bridge pickup cap, had the bridge pickup re-wired for RWRP hum-cancelling, moved the neck pickup to the pre-1974 1/2" spacing (potentially fatal mod which my bass luckily survived, would not recommend!), and then more recently a Hipshot bridge, and neck toaster (from The Creamery, in Manchester).

In the Rick vs. Jazz videos, I only used a little bit of compression; no other treatment. Some of the other videos have EQ and OD going on, but not the shootouts.

And yep, my name is Michael! "Sloppy Phil" was an old band nickname I picked up because I was a garbage drummer at age 17 ;)
 
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#7
Ah, it's an '84, that's why it sounds so good! The hi-gain pickups back then were wound to somewhere around 8k I believe which gives them a much more open top end than the current crop of hi-gain pickups which are wound to around 11k and are more mid heavy. I'd still appreciate the comparison though as I'd also be interested to hear the difference between a 'vintage' hi-gain and a toaster. Cheers.
 
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#8
Ah, well one piece of info I forgot about was that the previous owner of my bass had swapped in a 90s-era hi-gain into the neck position. There are two raised ridges in the black plastic molding around the pole pieces, which were not added until the 90s, so that pickup is probably around 9-10k. Still not as hot as the current ones, though, which are really quite beefy! I'd say, too, if you are just looking for some more top end/bite in your 4003 (I assume you own one and are contemplating a pickup swap, based on this whole chat?), try putting in higher value pots on the neck pickup; they are usually around 330k on today's models. Maybe 500k or even 1m would open things up more for you? Way cheaper than a toaster, that's for sure!

I'd have to say that there wasn't a huge shift in sound from the hi-gain to the toaster; it's definitely got more treble response and clarity, but it's also quite a bit lower output! I was deliberately going for a small volume mis-match though, since I wanted the bridge to overpower the neck when using the middle pickup position.

I'd say that if you haven't heard from me about the pickup recording by early December, shoot me a PM, and I'll be sure to make it!
 
#10
Where do you get a reissue toaster? Is someone making them new, or are you looking at used reissues somewhere?

Kinda wondering about this myself - the toaster in my '73 quit working sometime in the mid-90s, and I bought one I found online. I don't know if it was NOS or a reissue or what - the guy seemed pretty legit, though, and knew his stuff, definitely not a cheap knockoff.

Can't think what I might have done with the original(hopefully it's around here somewhere, would be nice to hang on to)
 
#13
Here's another one to consider - Nordstrand Audio Nordenbocker.

Nordenbocker - Rickenbacker™ Neck Replacement

I put one of these on my '79 4001 and have been very pleased with the results. The main reason I got this pickup is because it is reverse-wound which eliminates nearly all hum when both pickups on the bass are on.

The other thing that was a pleasant surprise is how much like a real Rickenbacker pickup this sounds.

It also looks great on the bass - it fits perfectly and the difference in construction quality is miles better than a stock Ric pickup.
 
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#15
ikay said:
I'm also tempted by the Classic Amplification Ric set - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...
I had a CA flattop ‘60s bridge pickup (wound about 7.5k) combined with a Rick scatterwound toaster in my customised Laredo. Dane did the custom pickguard, pickups and new wiring work, making a sort of V63 look.
It was Great sounding combination, and the CA’s construction was much better(good shielding,more robust) than any of the Rick pickups.
D6B440BC-A8F9-4CC6-BFF9-025060B72B63.jpeg
 
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#16
I had a 7K RIC reissue toaster in and out of my 4003S that has the modern hi-gain pickup with adjustable pole pieces. I recorded some stuff using the same exact strings. I'll see what I can dig up this week.

The difference was evident, but not as night and day as I expected. I like the two hi-gains with both volumes up and the HPF cap engaged. To my ears it sounds like the tone on Try and Love Again or something else off Hotel California. The toaster has a better soloed tone though-- more definition.
 
#18
Hey @ikay I threw this together pretty quickly, and didn't have as much material to work with as I thought. Only found a couple Rush covers I did that had the isolated hi-gain, so apologies for the Canadian Content! ;)

Since I recorded these nearly a year apart, I'm sure I didn't perfectly match the input levels (though I did my best to balance/match them after recording in my DAW), and the pickups aren't set to the same height either. The hi-gain, unsurprisingly, was a lot louder! So this isn't a perfect, fully scientific method 1-to-1 comparison, but it is reasonably accurate nonetheless.

Hi-gain is the first up, then the toaster. No post-production was added to either track; this is the raw audio straight out of my interface. Hope you find this helpful!

 
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#19
Hi Michael, thank you this is excellent and exactly what I was looking for! To my ears the hi-gain has more mids and the toaster is deeper and somehow more open. They both sound great and quite different to my modern 12k hi-gain which is somewhat darker. Although, I haven't tried recording it which might show up things I'm not hearing through an amp. I have a simple interface so might have a go at the same bass line. Were you playing with pick or fingers?
 

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