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Rickenbacker quality control issues?!
- Thread starter cb4
- Start date
My drummer just a new Ric in jetglow, the latest model with the upgraded bridge and non varnished fret board. On the back of the body there are clearly two lines visible in the paint where the wings have been glued onto the Neck through. Is this normal?
Ric? Quality control issues?
The hell you say!
The hell you say!
I remember Rodger Sadowsky saying Rics were banned from his repair shop since they were too much of a pain. I thought it was funny until I tried to straighten the neck on a 2017 one I was looking to buy. Easily the worst neck and truss rod system I've run across in that price point.
Bro I think the same thing ALL THE TIME
well at least its not inbreeding !!! LMFAOSorry to hear about your glitch(es). Shocking that it was returned to you FROM THE FACTORY unfixed. But not unprecedented... I have some stories I could tell about dealing with really bonehead stuff from Southern California musical instrument manufacturer's 'Custom Shops' back in the day (~15 years ago). I'm not saying it's ALL because of the cannabis culture there, but...
PS: the last ten Rics I have played have been perfect, so maybe its just been a particularly bad couple of years for them - along with everyone else
I concur. Have used Smitty in the past, he knows his stuff.
I’ve had my Ric for 4 years and it’s played daily. One of the things I love most about it is it’s neck. Super stable and straight as an arrow. If both Smitty and L&M are saying it’s a defect, I’d say you got a lemon.
Can L&M make it right? They usually have pretty generous warranties etc.
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My Jet-Glo’s are actually transparent. Under the right lighting conditions you can also see the wood grain.
Seeing subtle witness lines in the paint at the neck beam/body wing joint is pretty common on neck-through instruments, and pretty much every Ric I've handled to some degree, though it comes and goes depending on temperature and humidity. As long as the finish isnt actually cracking or flaking, that wouldnt worry me much.
I've been working on Rickenbacker basses for almost a half-Century. In that time, every time one is on my bench, a quote from the Late Greg Lake always comes to mind. When asked by progressive rock fans why he didn't play Ricks- he said something to the effect of 'Rickenbacker basses are wildly inconsistent.' I have seen the same old-same old issues from them. ONLY RECENTLY, has Rickenbacker decided to make the right modifications to their 4001-4003 series, that all of us techs have been poking them with voodoo needles for decades to adopt. Firstly, is the stupid dual truss rod system. I just did a truss rod replacement on a 1970's 4000 single pickup bass. The owner tried to pull out the rods that had stripped ends while the rods were under tension. The results? A broken neck/ headstock volute area. After managing to get the nut off each rod, I discovered that the rods were epoxied to the bearing plate/ block. More fun. When I got the factory rods out.. I was stunned, but not surprised at just how awful they are. They flexed in all directions in my hands, and had no real strength at all. I repaired the break, then installed the new rods and a hand made aluminum bearing block. He bough a custom set made by a Rick specialist, and they are a big improvement. To me, a dual rod system, just doesn't really work. When you adjust one side, it HAS to, and does affect the other side of the neck. Guild 12 strings- same thing. Luthiers know this simple fact. The intrinsic stiffness of the WOOD billet used to make a neck, is important. A good piece of maple, one GOOD double acting rod, like a Stew Mac 'Hot Rod' for instance, removing a much smaller amount of wood from the center of the neck- results in an easier to adjust, stronger, and longer lasting neck and a better sounding instrument. The new bridge design, is also a big reason to buy a newer one, if you're looking for a Rick. I looked at a lefty fireglow one a few years ago, and didn't buy it- because it had an obvious finish repair. For a factory new bass costing 2K+ that's not cool.
Something many bassists don't know... and after comparing these instruments for a long time, I've discovered that the body shapes, are NOT identical throughout the years. Headstocks varied, as well. Even scale lengths vary. I have a template from a 2016 4003S. I put it against a 1978 4001, and the 4000 I just worked on. They did not match it at all.
EDIT: Before and after on the 4000 rod replacement. The bearing block had to be cut in half to remove it, and the rods. After, the new rods and bearing block.
Something many bassists don't know... and after comparing these instruments for a long time, I've discovered that the body shapes, are NOT identical throughout the years. Headstocks varied, as well. Even scale lengths vary. I have a template from a 2016 4003S. I put it against a 1978 4001, and the 4000 I just worked on. They did not match it at all.
EDIT: Before and after on the 4000 rod replacement. The bearing block had to be cut in half to remove it, and the rods. After, the new rods and bearing block.
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@FunkHead
That interesting, the only theory ive heard that makes sense regarding the long run of flaking and bubbling finish on darker painted models like Jetglo is that the UV cure finish they use(d) didnt cure fully. Other manufacturers have had similar problems with UV catalyzed color and clearcoat. Opaque finishes resist UV light penetration, so they work better on transparent clear or transluscent burst like Fireglo. If you can actually see grain through a Jetglo paintjob, they must be putting it on really thin so the UV can penetrate enough to cure it. My 78' Jetglo 4001 was absolutely opaque piano-black. I recently saw a metallic ruby red 4003 with a flawless finish, so they are capable of very high quality at their best.
That interesting, the only theory ive heard that makes sense regarding the long run of flaking and bubbling finish on darker painted models like Jetglo is that the UV cure finish they use(d) didnt cure fully. Other manufacturers have had similar problems with UV catalyzed color and clearcoat. Opaque finishes resist UV light penetration, so they work better on transparent clear or transluscent burst like Fireglo. If you can actually see grain through a Jetglo paintjob, they must be putting it on really thin so the UV can penetrate enough to cure it. My 78' Jetglo 4001 was absolutely opaque piano-black. I recently saw a metallic ruby red 4003 with a flawless finish, so they are capable of very high quality at their best.
Agreed on the dual truss rod system, it was always a bit of marketing hype that made no sense to me. Isnt different amounts of relief on the E and G strings also referred to as "neck twist"? In practice, every tech I ever had work on my old 78' 4001 with dual rods set them equal tension. The old hairpins were never intended to move the neck, just hold a set position, but the mild steel had a tendency to distort or crush the plate washer in the TRC pocket when overtightened by people whi didnt know any better. Hogging out a big hunk of wood under the TRC created a weak spot for no good reason too. About the only positive I can think of on the hairpins was they were removable when they (often) broke. At any rate, Ric seems to have finally agreed, having changed to a modern DA rod. I agree with @LHbassist , the modern 4003 are overall better made, and certainly more consistent bass to bass. The new V2 bridge is at least a partial improvement, for intonation adjustment and string anchoring anyway. The mute is still pretty much useless. I dont love the current chunky neck profile, but rumor has it they are getting thinner again. Since their warranty is effectively worthless, buying from a good dealer is the way to go. They usually do a good job, but take very little responsibility for lemons.
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Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Typically Rickenbacker necks are pretty good ... a few will twist ...
I have owned a lot of Rickenbackers ... 4001, 4003, 4003s5, 4004, 2030, 2050, 30 to 40 I guess ... some of my favorites were the few with a flaw in the neck
It is supposed to be a premium instrument.
It comes in at a premium price.
I hear too many complaints and it's unacceptable.
It comes in at a premium price.
I hear too many complaints and it's unacceptable.
The new single truss rod system isn't serviceable without fretboard removal and already I've seen several broken off truss rod nuts. I've had a few with the new bridge, you can bottom them out and get mediocre action. The necks are Louisville slugger specs
The dual rod system while " gimmicky " was serviceable as in the rods were easily replaced and once adjusted stayed adjusted for years at a time. Kinda sounds like the old bridge. A pain to intonate but it was a 1 and done endeavor
The dual rod system while " gimmicky " was serviceable as in the rods were easily replaced and once adjusted stayed adjusted for years at a time. Kinda sounds like the old bridge. A pain to intonate but it was a 1 and done endeavor
This thread has seemed to have morphed away from the original topic of QC issues so I'll chime in about the typical old complaints some folks have. I think most of them are complete bunk.
I Love the old bridge. I Like being able to tweak the action of all 4 string at once. Intonation is a snap.
The mutes work perfectly on every Rick I own/owned. They are to be adjusted equally a little bit at a time. The thumb screws are tight but that keeps the mutes exactly where you set them.
Re: truss rod route >> I never saw a Ric headstock bend forward like on a Fender.
I like dual truss rods better and am glad mine have it. Simple to adjust both evenly.
I never had a Twisted neck but I believe it can happen.
The finish problems were real.
I Like the binding and never even felt it for a second due to my technique I'd guess.
I am a little bummed about the lack of finish on the newer Fretboards. But I have a really cool wax that seals and shines them.
I Love the old bridge. I Like being able to tweak the action of all 4 string at once. Intonation is a snap.
The mutes work perfectly on every Rick I own/owned. They are to be adjusted equally a little bit at a time. The thumb screws are tight but that keeps the mutes exactly where you set them.
Re: truss rod route >> I never saw a Ric headstock bend forward like on a Fender.
I like dual truss rods better and am glad mine have it. Simple to adjust both evenly.
I never had a Twisted neck but I believe it can happen.
The finish problems were real.
I Like the binding and never even felt it for a second due to my technique I'd guess.
I am a little bummed about the lack of finish on the newer Fretboards. But I have a really cool wax that seals and shines them.
I bought one about 5 years ago on a whim. Was essentially a case queen for the first 18 months. When I finally got around to getting into it, I noticed that the paint was peeling off of the body and was buckling and cracking. I keep all of my basses in a temp/humidity controlled environment and used to sell high end basses made by the best in the biz - I know my stuff.
When the mfr denied my warranty claim, accused me of not properly taking care of the bass, and when the dealer was feckless and inept in addressing with the mfr, I decided that I would NEVER AGAIN own one or ever recommend the brand to anyone. I was eventually able to move to someone who was happy to get it, but for a few years, I really thought that it was going to be a total loss.
Without a doubt, the worst experience that I've ever had with a bass and with a mfr....by far. I research the CRAP out of everything I buy...but this was the one instance where I didn't. Had I done so, I would have found a long, storied history of similar experiences that have been well-documented here (and on other forums) for years/decades. There are better options. Or....you could just grab the nearest hammer and go to work on your fingers (less costly and less painful).
When the mfr denied my warranty claim, accused me of not properly taking care of the bass, and when the dealer was feckless and inept in addressing with the mfr, I decided that I would NEVER AGAIN own one or ever recommend the brand to anyone. I was eventually able to move to someone who was happy to get it, but for a few years, I really thought that it was going to be a total loss.
Without a doubt, the worst experience that I've ever had with a bass and with a mfr....by far. I research the CRAP out of everything I buy...but this was the one instance where I didn't. Had I done so, I would have found a long, storied history of similar experiences that have been well-documented here (and on other forums) for years/decades. There are better options. Or....you could just grab the nearest hammer and go to work on your fingers (less costly and less painful).
Why is that, I wonder?
Perhaps it’s because they can sell instruments with inconsistent quality control, and still command a premium. There’s no financial incentive to make them better. Not everyone raises their standards purely for pride. To some, it’s just a business.
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My understanding is the newer ones are supposed to be more consistent, and have a few marginal concessions to modern functionality compared to previous models. The old models were a bit like needles in a haystack when it came to finding the shape/size you wanted, but when it was right, good lord was it right.
I'll freely admit I got lucky with mine; it's an '84 (bought in 2011), and when I first went to straighten the neck a bit, the truss rods (which had clearly been improperly adjusted for years) were bent and mangled at the end. I tried to loosen the first one off, and it snapped! In a humungous stroke of fortune, my upstairs neighbour, who was helping me out at the time working on the bass, is a mechanical engineer! After eventually slackening the rods off, we pulled them out, and he took them to his shop. Proceeded to re-thread the ends, and re-introduce all the flex that had worn out of, at the time, nearly 30yo rods. Not bad for a neighbour, eh? Lol. That 4003 has been great to me ever since, and it's my ride or die bass. It plays so smoothly, and sounds exactly how I want it to, but I've also done countless little (and big) mods to it to help get it there. They are inherently quirky basses, and are understandably quite polarizing! At least, since I bought mine used, I wasn't giving money to RIC; I've never really been a fan of their business "ethics", and would rather they didn't profit off me.
Long story short, I completely understand the love of Rickys. I also completely understand the hate!
I'll freely admit I got lucky with mine; it's an '84 (bought in 2011), and when I first went to straighten the neck a bit, the truss rods (which had clearly been improperly adjusted for years) were bent and mangled at the end. I tried to loosen the first one off, and it snapped! In a humungous stroke of fortune, my upstairs neighbour, who was helping me out at the time working on the bass, is a mechanical engineer! After eventually slackening the rods off, we pulled them out, and he took them to his shop. Proceeded to re-thread the ends, and re-introduce all the flex that had worn out of, at the time, nearly 30yo rods. Not bad for a neighbour, eh? Lol. That 4003 has been great to me ever since, and it's my ride or die bass. It plays so smoothly, and sounds exactly how I want it to, but I've also done countless little (and big) mods to it to help get it there. They are inherently quirky basses, and are understandably quite polarizing! At least, since I bought mine used, I wasn't giving money to RIC; I've never really been a fan of their business "ethics", and would rather they didn't profit off me.
Long story short, I completely understand the love of Rickys. I also completely understand the hate!
