Michael Tobias and Rodger Sadowsky on their dual truss rods. The whole video is great, but this bit of the conversation rings very true.
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Rickenbacker quality control issues?!
- Thread starter cb4
- Start date
It's quite funny to see experienced luthiers griping about the Rick Truss Rods. They are completely wrong though! The Rods work just fine. Any thin-walled socket will easily fit on the nuts. Once adjusted, My Ricks are completely stable…sometimes for decades.
I’ve never adjusted my ‘72 rods. I’ve had it since 1973-74
I 100% believe that and have similar experience. My one Rick got some adjustment when I tried LaBella LTFs. I simply backed them off a little with absolutely zero issues. I then decided to go back to rounds and adjusted them again. It's so simple and such B/S to hear others Whine about it. Simply just not true!
Turnaround
Commercial User
As someone who has worked on many Rics over my career, I have to agree with much of what is stated here. Ric enthusiasts are willing to overlook these shortcomings because they like the look, feel and/or sound of the instrument. For my part I dislike the look, feel and sound, but that's immaterial. As a technician, the design points and manufacture are exceedingly important, and IMO both fall short of acceptable for an instrument in that price range. And for my part, I won't work on Ric's any more. I am not able to bring a Ric up to the standards I maintain for quality instruments. I agree with Dave from Dave's World of Fun stuff - he is not afraid to give voice to what I and a lot of other techs think of Rics.
I completely disagree! I will work on Ricks all day long. I also work on my own BMWs and Mercedes yet many Mechanics run away from them too.
In fact: I won't let other people work on my Basses or Cars!
D
YOUR Ricks may be ok. That doesn't mean ALL Ricks are ok. I've worked on lots of Ricks and the problem mentioned in the video is VERY common. As is tail lift, twisted necks, problems with the binding, problems with the finish... Finding a really great Rick is possible but there are FAR too many poor ones out there for an instrument in this price range.
The problems mentioned are not even real. Use the right 1/4” socket and truss rod adjustment is simple. Maybe someone jammed a fat socket in there and bent the end of the rods but that’s operator error and abuse. 1 out of 1000 tail lifts actually cause a problem or move past a tiny little amount.
If someone bent truss rods then sell the customer a replacement job. Just don’t blame a RIC for operator abuse. Just like Maxed out Fender truss rods. That’s 99% operator abuse.
D
Then why does this not happen with any other basses? Are you suggesting Rickenbacker owners are more stupid than owners of other basses? I don't think so. It's definitely not operator abuse. I've seen it happen FAR to often for that. The truss rod nuts bend downwards over time because of the way they're designed. Even the thin walled adjustment tools sold by Rickenbacker won't fit when this has happened. In some cases I've had to remove wood to be able to adjust the truss rod but this will obviously weaken the neck joint so it's just a desperate last resort on basses where the relief MUST be adjusted for playability and the customer agrees to it. Basically a choice between firewood or a weakened neck joint.
In the case of my own Rick (which to be fair did NOT have this truss rod issue but lots of other issues) the tail lift was maybe around 0.4 cm which is something I see on LOTS of Ricks. This was still enough to get buzzing over the saddles unless I raised the action much higher than normal.
I have two older Rics. An 80 4001 , gave the rods a slight tweak twenty five years ago when I got it , gave then another slight tweak about two years ago. And a 76 set neck 4000 , slight tweak when I bought it , haven’t touched it since.
So I’ve found them to be very stable.
So I’ve found them to be very stable.
I finally got a 2018 4003 after wanting a Ric for 20 years. The nut was sky high from the factory, there were a few small but obvious blemishes in the finish (made more noticeable by the matte black color), and there was a visible gap under the tailpiece on day one. I love it now, but it took a bone nut, fret level and Hipshot bridge to get there. The cult status is a big part of Rickenbacker’s appeal in my opinion. People really WANT to like these things.
Turnaround
Commercial User
I think that BMW's and Mercedes are well-engineered machines. I cannot say that about Rics.
Any thin-walled socket will work until the end of the truss rod bends, then you can't get any socket on there. About 50% of the Rics I have worked on had that problem.
Turnaround
Commercial User
The bent truss rod problem is not the result of someone using the wrong sized wrench, it's a function of the design. The end of the rod without the threads is pushing the terminator block out at the top while the threaded end is pulling it in at the bottom. Because the rod is so small it bends at the block:
Interesting that people are complaining about "bent truss rod problems" 40 years after Rickenbacker changed over to compression rods. Yeah, that's right, that style of truss rod was phased out over 40 years ago. For goodness sake.
Well this is Talk Bass...
Well this is Talk Bass...
99% of people can play and maintain a Rick for decades. Some have problems and some of them are legit. Most Others are caused by inexperienced users/techs or abuse. If you don’t want to own one or work on one then don’t. Cranking on a Rick truss rod under string tension will dig into the block and eventually cause it to get deformed. That’s operator error.
Instruments require finesse and a delicate approach. That’s all I can say if you just don’t get it, it’s on you.
Instruments require finesse and a delicate approach. That’s all I can say if you just don’t get it, it’s on you.
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The funny thing about all the naysayers is that RIC still sell every one they make.
They've tried releasing basses without the bridge/tailpiece unit, with humbuckers, without binding, etc. And people just buy the 4003 anyway.
Me, I think they're the best sounding/looking/playing basses ever made, but what would I know - I only have 8 of them...
They've tried releasing basses without the bridge/tailpiece unit, with humbuckers, without binding, etc. And people just buy the 4003 anyway.
Me, I think they're the best sounding/looking/playing basses ever made, but what would I know - I only have 8 of them...
Pretty much everything negative (and positive) said here about Rics is true at least on some basses, which makes you wonder why people buy them: THAT TONE. I can get a close emulation with other basses, but nothing else really sounds like a Ric. Ive yet to own a "perfect" bass, but people put up with all kinds of idiosyncracies in other brands without blinking an eye. Ric has certainly earned some of its bad rap from people who have reason to know: the techs who work on them, and Owners on the losing end of their atrocious warranty policies. Every brand also has its fanbois and haters, I'd say Im in neither camp. Its an inconsistently fabulous bass that's had some long term and very well known issues the company has ignored or stonewalled on, which I think explains the hater contingent. If you want to understand the fanboi point of view, just play one! They either work for you or they don't, ergonomics was a distant consideration at best in the original design. Having owned one for a while, Im as aware of the pros and cons as anyone, and opted to build my own to fix some of the more blatant issues, and so I wouldnt have to deal with a company with such a richly deserved reputation for CS that was excrable at worst and indifferent at best. I can walk and chew gum simultaneously, and it's possible to love a particular bass and still be honest about its shortcomings.
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Turnaround
Commercial User
And people still insist on having their 40-year-old Ric serviced. What are they thinking?
D
I totally agree with most of what you're saying. Ricks look cool and THAT TONE (like it or not) can certainly not be found in any other basses. The problem is, not all Ricks have THAT TONE so that's yet another box that needs to be ticked when you sift through the rubbish to find a Rick that works AND sounds great. They ARE out there but in my experience it's 50-50 at best and that's pretty abysmal odds for a bass in this price range.
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Not really a Rick repair story, but hopefully some folks will enjoy it anyways...
In 1975, after using my singer's fireglo Rick for a number of months, I liked the slightly shorter scale of the Rick so I saved up the money to buy my own. Around this time, our singer had decided to leave the band and ended up joining the Genesis tour as Daryl Sturmer's guitar tech. My Fender Jazz had so many dead spots in the neck, the band would no longer allow me to use it, so I knew I had to do something.
After a well-publicized gig at the Cellar Door, i found out that I had several big-time fans who happened to work at Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center. Chuck's was the superior local choice for bass gear at the time. I told him that I wanted to buy my own 4001 and he stopped me cold. He said, "Look - I don't want to rain on your parade - but there is a HUGE difference in 4001's from bass to bass. They simply are not consistent. Every neck seems to be a new experience in feel - and the fit and finish can vary a lot." He asked me how much time I had and I told him I wanted to get it done within a week or two.
I was so amazed and delighted when he called me early in the week and said - "Look, we have about a dozen 4001s in the warehouse, if you can give us until saturday, we will track them all down, make sure they have good set-ups and let you in upstairs to play them all to your heart's content." Of course, I set my sights on saturday and told him my favorite finish was the mapleglo, but I wouldn't let that make my final decision. But I did want to be sure he had all the mapleglo's in the room for me. I hate paint, I am a natural wood guy.
So on saturday, I spent several hours, painstakingly going through all of the Rick's (my name is Rick, they will always be Rick's to me - Ric doesn't work.) I found that exactly what they said was true. I couldn't believe the differences in the neck profiles. It was wild how varied they were. Call me crazy, but how cool that a major bass manufacturer didn't have cookie-cutter necks. I considered this an asset at the time.
Also some sloppy finish work and a couple they had trouble setting up properly. They both buzzed badly even after their tech's spent a good amount of time trying to set them up properly. I gravitated to a mapleglo - with the widest and yet thinnest neck I had ever played. I just kept going back to that one, and eventually rang the cash register with it. I hope this isn't a disrespect to this thread in any way - I owned the bass for only a year, and used it on 7 of the 8 tunes on our initial release "Happy the Man" which was produced by Ken Scott. I ended up giving the bass to Paul Reed Smith, but that is an entirely different story. Suffice it to say, the bass held up without problems for about a year and served me well. No issues, nothing odd, even with that ridiculously thin neck.
So that is my story and I am sticking to it. The Rick was replaced with PRS #11, which was medium scale and changed my life:
Paul Reed Smith #11 | Vintage Guitar® magazine
PRS #11 was the only bass I owned, and the only bass I played for over 20 years.
In 1975, after using my singer's fireglo Rick for a number of months, I liked the slightly shorter scale of the Rick so I saved up the money to buy my own. Around this time, our singer had decided to leave the band and ended up joining the Genesis tour as Daryl Sturmer's guitar tech. My Fender Jazz had so many dead spots in the neck, the band would no longer allow me to use it, so I knew I had to do something.
After a well-publicized gig at the Cellar Door, i found out that I had several big-time fans who happened to work at Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center. Chuck's was the superior local choice for bass gear at the time. I told him that I wanted to buy my own 4001 and he stopped me cold. He said, "Look - I don't want to rain on your parade - but there is a HUGE difference in 4001's from bass to bass. They simply are not consistent. Every neck seems to be a new experience in feel - and the fit and finish can vary a lot." He asked me how much time I had and I told him I wanted to get it done within a week or two.
I was so amazed and delighted when he called me early in the week and said - "Look, we have about a dozen 4001s in the warehouse, if you can give us until saturday, we will track them all down, make sure they have good set-ups and let you in upstairs to play them all to your heart's content." Of course, I set my sights on saturday and told him my favorite finish was the mapleglo, but I wouldn't let that make my final decision. But I did want to be sure he had all the mapleglo's in the room for me. I hate paint, I am a natural wood guy.
So on saturday, I spent several hours, painstakingly going through all of the Rick's (my name is Rick, they will always be Rick's to me - Ric doesn't work.) I found that exactly what they said was true. I couldn't believe the differences in the neck profiles. It was wild how varied they were. Call me crazy, but how cool that a major bass manufacturer didn't have cookie-cutter necks. I considered this an asset at the time.
Also some sloppy finish work and a couple they had trouble setting up properly. They both buzzed badly even after their tech's spent a good amount of time trying to set them up properly. I gravitated to a mapleglo - with the widest and yet thinnest neck I had ever played. I just kept going back to that one, and eventually rang the cash register with it. I hope this isn't a disrespect to this thread in any way - I owned the bass for only a year, and used it on 7 of the 8 tunes on our initial release "Happy the Man" which was produced by Ken Scott. I ended up giving the bass to Paul Reed Smith, but that is an entirely different story. Suffice it to say, the bass held up without problems for about a year and served me well. No issues, nothing odd, even with that ridiculously thin neck.
So that is my story and I am sticking to it. The Rick was replaced with PRS #11, which was medium scale and changed my life:
Paul Reed Smith #11 | Vintage Guitar® magazine
PRS #11 was the only bass I owned, and the only bass I played for over 20 years.
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