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Rig-less bar band players?

Stev187

Stev187

Peavey MegaBass Club!
Jan 11, 2011
965
130
Lansing, MI
#1
Hey everyone. How many of you run your own sound from stage and play direct without a rig?

Here's my situation. For the past 9 months, I've been the bass player in a gigging bar band. We do party/cover stuff and work about 2x per month in small to medium sized bars. We started off doing vocal-only PA with the drummer mixing from stage (because it's his PA). Our PA rig has gotten bigger and more complicated, and I have the most background in this kind of equipment, so running sound kind of fell into my job duties, which is fine. A couple of notes:
  1. A dedicated sound person mixing out in the house is not possible; the guys won't invest the time and $ into that
  2. Our gear is what it is--we aren't getting more. We have 2 large power amps; FOH = PV215s on sticks and we run a pair of monitors with separate channels
  3. My cable is long enough to check levels from out in the room; our guitarist is wireless, so he checks from time to time
  4. Our crowd either doesn't notice or care about deficiencies in our mix; either that or I am doing a fantastic job (more likely the former--LOL)

So I've been mixing us from stage for a while, and I usually put the mixer on top of my rig. I've gotten pretty good at dialing in a nice mix. Our guitarist--believe it or not--plays really quiet despite his Fender half stack, so I always need to boost him through the mains and monitors.

At our last gig, my bass was punchy enough through the room and the mix that I really couldn't hear or didn't need my rig. Now, I love the sound of my rig; when I turned it off, I missed the TONE of it, but it didn't get in my way at all. I could hear and feel myself and it wasn't a major drag to not have my "sound" flapping my pant legs. This is saying a lot, because I wear earplugs at every practice and show.

Even when my rig is giving me the exact sound I want, though, when I walk out into the room, I can't hear it at all. I only hear the FOH signal I've mixed for myself.

So here's my thought: if the only one who is "enjoying" the sound of my rig is me, why bring it to the gig? Since I am the sound guy, perhaps I should just focus on getting a good mix and maybe work harder to get a bass tone I like through the PA. Funny thing is that the guys in my band are against me leaving the rig at home. The drummer thinks it looks cool and our singer says "it just wouldn't be right" to not have a bass rig up there. From a security standpoint, I kind of treat the PA as my rig, so I don't think I'd miss it.

Anybody else in this boat? And, again, hiring a sound person to mix from the house isn't an option for us. Our new gear has actually been a real marketing thing for our band: people can actually talk at their tables and they seem to have a better time. Bar owners like this and we've gotten/kept gigs because of it.

Your thoughts?

--Steve
 
#2
I suggest keeping your rig with you for certain shows just in case.

As for not having a bass rig on stage and the look of the stage, I think it's all "baloney". On the other hand, if you are trying to give the impression of stacks and stacks of gear and a mountain of sound, then you should have it there. It sounds like you are in a typical bar band though and if you have no gimmick, then it really does not matter. People are not going to leave the show if the bass player has no rig on stage.
 
#4
I actually have a set up that is multi functional and occasionally play gigs with no amp just as your thinking of doing. What I have is a pedal train junior that has a pitch black tuner, Morley wah, boss bass overdrive, programmable sansamp bass driver and voodoo labs pedal power to run it all. I mounted a Furman six way power strip on my board as well so my pedal power plugs into that and since it has a 15 foot cable on it I just plug that into a socket. Since the sansamp is what I use for my tone I can bring just a powered monitor for me to hear myself, use a house monitor if I need it or for bigger gigs bring my 410 and a QSC power amp. No matter what setup I always get the same tone since everything is coming from the pedal board.
 
#5
Gearhead17 said:
I suggest keeping your rig with you for certain shows just in case.
Click to expand...

Yes, good idea. I have a 500w combo amp that is enough for any room we play, even without PA support. I might just use it as a stand for the PA rack and mixer--then it's there as a backup, too.

Oh, and funny thing about the stacks of gear. When I was in my 20s doing this, everybody was into the equipment you had on stage. I took a 20 year break and my current bar band is made up of guys in our 30s and 40s. I have yet to have anyone in the crowd ask me about my gear or even my basses. We talk music with plenty of people, but nobody has even noticed what gear I am using.

--Steve
 
#6
OP,
I think you described my band, and my situation, perfectly, except that I don't own anything larger than a 15w practice amp at home.
I have always gone through our PA and now that I have a Zoom B3 I can use some amp modeling to add some flavor.
We play at a good volume as well so we keep the crowd. In most bars (at least where we play), you have some dancers but most are there to hang out and talk with friends.

You have the same insecurity as me: If I don't have a rig, am I a real a bass player??? :hiding:

:cool:
 
#7
I knew a guy in band that had an interesting set up, similar to what you are suggesting.

He plugged the FOH into the left channel off the board, and ran a monitors in the right channel.

The FOH were put on poles behind the band so that they could hear their vocals. One wedge was on the floor for the bass player.

All inputs into the board were panned hard left for FOH. The was panned hard right.
 
#8
I'm getting an IEM system next week for church. There's a band I fill in with from time to time that is also IEM with PA. I doubt I will use my little rig any more except for practice at home.

I have never really been the kind of player that has to feel his rig behind him. I love my ears being protected, I love that I chose what I want to hear. There's a reason touring acts and semi-pro acts have IEM.
 
#9
I have run thru the PA several times with one band.
It worked OK, depending on the mix.
I missed my rig a bit but loved not having to move it 4 x a night.
All this **** would be worth it if I didn't have
to lug gear for gigs. (That's 25 years of gigging being vented.)
 
#10
Stev187 said:
At our last gig, my bass was punchy enough through the room and the mix that I really couldn't hear or didn't need my rig. Now, I love the sound of my rig; when I turned it off, I missed the TONE of it, but it didn't get in my way at all. I could hear and feel myself and it wasn't a major drag to not have my "sound" flapping my pant legs. This is saying a lot, because I wear earplugs at every practice and show.

Even when my rig is giving me the exact sound I want, though, when I walk out into the room, I can't hear it at all. I only hear the FOH signal I've mixed for myself.

So here's my thought: if the only one who is "enjoying" the sound of my rig is me, why bring it to the gig?
--Steve
Click to expand...

Mic your rig so that others can enjoy the tone?:bassist::hyper:

Bryan
 
#11
BryanC said:
Mic your rig so that others can enjoy the tone?:bassist::hyper:
Click to expand...

Cool idea, Bryan... but two problems with that for me. a) the rig I love so much is a bi-amp deal, so it doesn't mic well; b) I am trying for a Keep-It-Simple approach to this whole thing. Another live mic on stage is something more for me to worry about as bass player/sound dude. So that wouldn't work, I don't think.

This thread has been helpful, because I am now starting to think of the PA as my rig. It's just really, really big. For FOH, my signal is going through four 15" speakers; the monitors are punchy enough on stage, and since I am running the board, and I can make my personal adjustments on the fly. We run a simple 2-channel monitor mix, so I can boost my signal on my side of the stage if I need to do that.

The sound guy in me is not inclined to mic bass cabs. I'm that sound guy you hate: after you spend 20 minutes telling me how important your amp is to your sound, I hand you a DI box and say "plug into this." Lots of TB arguments about this, but the FOH mix is about so much more than the "tone" that the bass player wants from his/her amp.

My pedaltrain is pretty simple. I run a compressor, envelope filter, octaver, and an MXR M-80 DI. There's also a good 4-band EQ on each channel of our mixer. Between the M-80 and the board, I should be able to dial in a nice bass tone that works for me on stage and FOH.

Intellectually I have always known that the feel and tone of my rig was an on-stage thing and that the crowd was hearing something different. Being the sound guy has really driven that home for me. When I go out in the room to check levels, it's clear that people can't hear or feel my rig. It's something you need to experience to really understand. When I am up there playing, I just assume everybody's hearing what I am hearing.

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll pop back to this thread after a few more rig-less gigs.

--Steve

P.S. One more thought about others "enjoying" my tone. I can't even get the guys in my band to give me feedback. When I change amps, cabinets, or even basses, they tell me it all sounds good. "You always sound like Steve," my drummer told me. In other words, I hear the subtle differences but others don't. So why not keep it simple?
 
#12
The funniest gig I did was one where we were all direct:
- Drummer: Roland V-drum
- Guitar: Rocktron Voodu Valve
- Bass: Peavey alphabass tube preamp

FOH: 2x15"+sub on each side
Stage monitor: 3 12"wedge
The sub was the key for me as wedges don't have much bass. So I could hear myself and feel it too.

Seriously the setup + soundcheck was around 30 minutes, no mics for drums/guitar amp=no feedback. Good sound, no rush no pressure on anything and it left us plenty of time to have a drink with friends before and after playing. Did I say it took only 30 minutes to put everything back in the car?!?!?!
 
#15
I'm in your same situation. Have been playing most of my gigs since this summer (bars but also bigger street dances) going direct to the board via SansAmp with IEMs and no amp on stage. We also run our own sound from stage but we have a decent P.A. with plenty of power and subs so everything gets put through there all the time.

Personally I don't think our show suffers at all and in fact the best compliments on our sound started coming after I ditched the onstage rig.

As far as the looks thing, honestly the whole "backline of stacks" thing is still in vogue for some environments but more often than not it seems now like the "clean stage" look is in. I.e., minimal or no backline, no wedge monitors or side fills, small drum kit, etc. That's always been my band leader's preference so we've been downscaling our onstage gear by degrees all along. We finally got our lead guitarist to deep-six his 50w 4x12 half stack in favor of a small combo a couple months ago and he was the last holdout for big onstage rigs so it's all good.
 
#16
Ive done what you are doing, but I decided to go back to bringing my rig. I like being able to hear myself no matter what is going on with the PA, but I admit for some small places it is an attractive option. I have just decided that I am going to start using a mic as well as a DI through the PA too so I will get some of that sound out there.
 
#18
I do this and it works well. Pedalboard to mains and on IEM's. Sounds good in my ears and out front. 5 minute setup :bassist:

IMG_0675.jpg
 
#19
Thinking out of the boxis the way things get better. I was 18 yo and was speaking to the guitarist in a friends abnd about the two 1960 speakers he was schelping to every gig. He confided that one was empty.

Fans of the Stainless Steel Rat will remember his using a video display of stacks.

If your guitarist has a stack and you're playing normal sized bars than I doubt anyone sill notice whether or not you're stacked.

I recently purchases a bass Pandora. Thinking what you're thinking. It's actually lighter than my Eden WTX264. Some whizz kid will eventually market a box like the Pandora with a Xmitter that matches a reciever in sound boards. And make this arrangment standard.

As a long time tone junkie I realize that the thousands I have spent are wasted on 99.9 % of the crowd. Maybe the couple of bassists will go wow. But in reality if there out front they are hearing the FOH. And that's not my tone, it's the sound guys.

If anything we of the stronger strings are behind the getting small curve. Look at the price os a Blackface Deluxe Reverb on the open market. Or compare what a keyboardist of the average 70s bar band ( B-3,Mellotron, Rhodes etc.) would carry with he's carrying today.

If we can civilize drummers to the point where a WTX264 or a Pandora is an option we would be making the world a better place. The whole band would be hearing better longer and your backs would be doing the same.

You have a good Idea. Congratz.
 
#20
It's a good rule of thumb to never leave any gear in the car. It's the most likely place for gear to vanish plus the enviorment is harsh.

Don't believe that last statement? Spend 24 hours in a car with the climate control off. Just you and the shut windows.


DonaldR said:
What I might suggest is to get a micro head (I'm looking at a TC BH250) that can be used without speaker with a DI out. Leave the cab in the car if PA support is enough.
Click to expand...
 

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