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rig-raising?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Gut_Implosion, Oct 3, 2004.


  1. Does anyone know what I could use to get my rig up higher from the floor to help project the sound better? I know it seems like a stupid question, but you can exactly plant a 2x15 cab on top of a cardboard box.
     
  2. Some people use their road case.
     
  3. the dude

    the dude Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2004
    Indy
    Most people seem to find that the connection of the cabinet and floor creates an important connection for bass (since most of us want the audience to feel it as well as hear it.)

    Is a 2nd cab a possibility? You could either stack the 2nd cab lean it back.
     
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Having the speaker up where you can hear it better is a good idea to some extent, but don't do it. On the floor where the speaker is coupled to the ground plane you're getting 3 to 6dB of boundary gain below 120 Hz or so, the equivalent of doubling to quadrupling your power. Not only does that gain diminish as you raise the box higher, you also will get out of phase cancellation reflections at the 1/4 wavelength distance from the lower edge of the speaker to the floor; at 100 Hz that distance is 2.8 feet, and in total you could lose 12dB or more where your 2x10 can least afford to do so.

    Instead place the 2x10 vertically, to get the radiating plane as high as possible without breaking the ground plane connection. A bit of tilt to get the box aimed upwards at your ears is OK. This will also help horizontal high frequency dispersion; technically, two or more speakers should never be placed side by side, whether located within one box or multiple boxes. True, everyone does it that way, because intuition says that side by side placement increases horizontal dispersion. However, intuition is wrong 90% of the time when it comes to audio acoustics, and this is one common situation where it's usually done wrong.
     
  5. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i cant imagine needing to put a 2x15 up any higher

    billfitz speaks the truth
     
  6. BassDmb18

    BassDmb18

    Dec 28, 2002
    Davie, FL
    I would love to see Stefan Lessard stack his 3 cabs.
     
  7. Why's that?
     
  8. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    do a search for the grateful dead wall of sound
    phil (the bass player) once had a rig which consisted of 18 1x15 cabinets stacked - on each side of the stage
    it doesnt matter how silly it looks, vertical is always better
     
  9. I usually use my evil powers to levitate my cab :D

    Get a beat up 4-6 space rack or road case and stuff it with a piece of foam to deaden any vibration.

    Or better yet I saw in another post that sombody had a pic of a small beer fridge on top...... reverse it and that would solve two problems!!!
     
  10. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    He should. If he knew how loudspeakers work he would. It's amazing how high the percentage is among professional musicians whose livelyhoods depend on loudspeakers, yet they have no clue as to the how's and why's of their function.
     
  11. BassLow

    BassLow

    Sep 14, 2004
    Does it mean that you do not recommend the use of the Auralex Gramma pad or things like that? What would you use
    to solve unwanted resonnance/vibration problem, especially
    on a hollow stage?
     
  12. BassDmb18

    BassDmb18

    Dec 28, 2002
    Davie, FL
    It'd be 3 slim, but tall AMPEG cabs, all stacked.. It'd look funny, and i'd be afraid to stand in front of them.. Especially with Carter banging away a few feet from him.
     
  13. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    By all means you don't want to waste energy vibrating a stage instead of the eardrums in the audience, so vibration absorbing tools are quite useful. One very good item I've seen (it may be an Auralex product) is a pair of high density boards separated by vibration absorbing foam. Smaller ones are good under speakers, larger ones under drum kits.

    If you must have 3 boxes hang them or scaffold them. The wider the rig is the worse it sounds. Next concert look at the vertical line arrays hung either side of the stage. There's a reason why vertical line arrays are sending cluster arrays to landfills.
    But realistically more than a double SVT rig is more for show than for sound anyway- again, look to either side of the stage at the PA subs. They ain't pushing vocals. He might not even have all 3 plugged in; wouldn't be the first guy with extra boxes to impress the equipment nerds.
     
  14. BassDmb18

    BassDmb18

    Dec 28, 2002
    Davie, FL
    He still sounds good live. Where ever his output is coming from.
     
  15. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Give credit where it's due: to his man at the FOH. 90% of what you're hearing is from the PA, and 90% of the soundmen out there don't have a clue how to mix bass.
     
  16. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    It wouldn't suprise me if it was all FOH. The cabinets might be dummies just to plactae a sponsor. He's probbly got in-ear monitors and running the bass direct. What does he need stage volume for?

    Although this is purely speculation - it is not unheard of, or for that matter uncommon
     
  17. BassDmb18

    BassDmb18

    Dec 28, 2002
    Davie, FL
    They definitly all use IEM (in ear monitors.) You can even download some funny conversations between the boys in the DMB from Kazaa or WinMX from these IEM. Talking about girls boobies, and screwing up words to the song. Or smoking weed, they're pretty funny.
     
  18. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Undoubtably he uses both, relying on the in-ear and wedges more to hear everything else in the mix, and the backilne for himself, with possibly some bass in the monitor mix, possibly not. I don't care for bass in monitors and most of the guys I work with don't either, preferring the backine sound. But what you're hearing in the audience is mostly PA, especially anything below 80 Hz where the subs kick in and deliver what the stage amps are incapable of to begin with. That's also where clueless soundmen; ie, the ones that aren't bassplayers, tend to go overboard, putting out far too much bottom and no mids in a mix that seldom bears any resemblance to what the guy on stage is hearing from his rig.
     
  19. I was going to say the same thing, you may find you lose bottom end when lifting/decoupling the cabinet from the floor. :ninja: :eyebrow: