I am a pretty casual upright bass player and have been playing for 20+ years. I play for about 30 minutes each day currently. Even in that limited amount of playing each day I have developed right wrist pain. It usually goes away after a few days of not playing. The problem is that I’m not sure what seems to be causing the pain. I had a lesson recently where the teacher told me my wrist looks very tight/stiff while I’m playing. I’m not sure how to play more loosely. Any video to watch that addresses this issue or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,737
- 8,950
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
There's no video that is going to address the physical issues of playing this instrument better than an actual human being. I'd spend more time with a teacher....
Could be tendinitis. If something hurts, stop. Consult with your doctor.
Thanks for the feedback. It very well could be tendinitis. It goes away rather quickly. The concern that I have is that I’m doing something wrong with my technique that I’m not aware of that repeatedly causes the same slight pain. I’m hoping there is some intervention that can prevent it from continuing.
I'd suggest an appointment with a DPT (Doctor of Physical Therapy). You may need to see your primary physician first to be referred in order to be covered by insurance, although a DPT should be able to see you directly if you choose to do so. Consider bringing your double bass to the DPT and demonstrating how you play so your movements can be properly assessed. As good as seeing a teacher is for your playing, a teacher is not a DPT who is trained to identify injuries or dangerously stressful activities
I'd also recommend variety. Variety of pizz-hand location, variety of wrist posture, variety of pizz pressure used, variety of pizz technique. Exercising small-muscle and nerve groups the exact same way over and over again creates dangerous stress. Perhaps try arco during a portion your practices just to get some variety of the way those muscles are worked. If you stand all the time while playing, try sitting for short periods, or vice versa, again for variety of posture.
Lastly, your strings and setup could be stressing your hands (and arms and shoulders and neck) too. Perhaps consider strings and a setup that would be easier on your whole body. If you're not already using it, tastefully done amplification can make it so you don't have to drive your bass so hard in order to be heard.
Most important is seeing a health care professional though. If this is bothering you enough to cause you to stop playing for a few days, it is worth it to get things checked out properly.
I'd also recommend variety. Variety of pizz-hand location, variety of wrist posture, variety of pizz pressure used, variety of pizz technique. Exercising small-muscle and nerve groups the exact same way over and over again creates dangerous stress. Perhaps try arco during a portion your practices just to get some variety of the way those muscles are worked. If you stand all the time while playing, try sitting for short periods, or vice versa, again for variety of posture.
Lastly, your strings and setup could be stressing your hands (and arms and shoulders and neck) too. Perhaps consider strings and a setup that would be easier on your whole body. If you're not already using it, tastefully done amplification can make it so you don't have to drive your bass so hard in order to be heard.
Most important is seeing a health care professional though. If this is bothering you enough to cause you to stop playing for a few days, it is worth it to get things checked out properly.
Thanks for the input. I don’t have any videos that show my right hand. I can see if I can create something that might illustrate the problem and put it up over the next few days. The suggestion about amplification could be helpful. I try to create a very loud sound. I might be overdoing it though. I also think that the pain might be from trying to play faster passages.
Try for relaxed, efficient and tension free, including lower and upper back, neck and shoulders. Don’t try to stay at your max output for more than short sections. Redlining for long is no good, musically as well as technically. Take lessons from schooled players.
This question is for dhergert, but others are welcome to weigh in. Are there certain pizzicato techniques or approaches that you think would help reduce tension/pain in the wrist? Similarly, are there strings that you would suggest that help with this problem?
I have been using the Evah’s light gauge for a few years. In the past I used spirocores-medium gauge.
I have been using the Evah’s light gauge for a few years. In the past I used spirocores-medium gauge.
Pain in the wrist can easily come from issues in your back/shoulders. Get professional guidance in person or over videolink. Your strings are not the problem.
There are players here with decades and even half-centuries more experience than I who can and are answering this so I'd definitely listen to their advice as far as particulars are concerned...
Personally for straight pizz I use index and middle fingers (sides) together, with the thumb anchored on the bass-edge of the fingerboard, as much as possible so I'm not over-powering a single finger all the time. I will use those two fingers separately for short fast passages but only as needed. I do a light-slap (triplets and quads) for roots and bluegrass and for that I try not to overuse my wrist swivel movement, keeping it subtle and relaxed.
I have had trouble in the past with nerve issues in my neck, lower back, wrists and forearms and have spent months in physical therapy multiple times in the past for those issues, so I try to maintain proper posture and try to keep my wrists and my arms and elbows as straight and as relaxed possible. And as I'm getting older (65) my hands take longer to get moving (arthritis) so I go out of my way to soak them in very warm water (washing dishes!) which does help. If I do get hand injuries (cuts, bruises, blisters, strains), ice is one of my primary solutions.
As I mentioned about variety of movement, I routinely change-up what I'm doing between various pizz and slap techniques and locations on the neck and fingerboard, so my hands and wrists and forearms get a good range of activity. I do practice arco every day even though I rarely use it in public, and I always bring a relatively [un]comfortable adjustable height playing stool and [gladly] alternate between various elevations, sitting and standing while playing.
While I'm only 15 months into double bass, I've played other instruments professionally for about 50 years and I'm extremely protective about continuing to play those instruments. So I am using very low tension synthetic non-metal strings (Innovation SilverSlaps EA, SBW Deluxe "Dirty Guts" DG) and I expect to continue in that direction although I may eventually move into guts for D and G. Thicker strings feel better in my hands.
I fully endorse mentors and teachers, but when it comes to possible nerve pain and various injuries, I'm sure if you ask your mentors and teachers if they will be liable for your health, they'll say no. I'd encourage you to seek out proper medical care if you are dealing with anything that is keeping you from enjoying your music. My cumulative years of experience with DPTs and PTs has been excellent and I can highly recommend them for this kind of problem.
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- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,737
- 8,950
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
And yet...
One of the things about working with a good double bass teacher is that you don't get to the point that physical issues caused by an incorrect physical approach manifest. And those that you have inculcated over the course of years get corrected. There's always going to be a doctor with knife waiting for you to walk into their office, but correcting a bad physical approach will more quickly determine if the problem is actual physical defect or injury (cyst, arthritis, carpal tunnel, etc.) or is more akin to repetitive stress an the lack of a relaxed physical approach.
I've been playing this instrument for almost 40 years now and was myself well on the way to wrist and back problems because of self taught physical approach, what got me straightened out was working with Joe Solomon for 14 years on what worked for me, personally and individually and specifically, in terms of getting to a relaxed and tension free technique.
Medical professionals will be able to treat symptoms, but if you don't work on the source of what is causing those symptoms, then it doesn't matter how good they are, you'll just keep going back over and over again.
SWBAss, look it's no skin off my nose, do what you want. You asked for advice, that's mine. I can't help but notice that you address EVERY thing else suggested in this thread with the exception of spending more time with a teacher. It might seem like that's the long way round, but in the long run, that's the shortest way to pain free playing.
No video is going to give you that.
Good advice above.
Also, don’t overlook the simple things: stretching, massage & applying heat to the forearm muscles BEFORE practising.
Also, don’t overlook the simple things: stretching, massage & applying heat to the forearm muscles BEFORE practising.
Ed, I agree with all of your points. It hasn’t reached the point of medical intervention and I want to get at the source of the issue. I agree that meeting with a teacher on an ongoing basis is the best approach, the difficulty is more practical in nature. I am curious to know what kinds of things you were able to do to avoid further wrist issues.
I have had arthritis in my right wrist for the past 20 + years. Docs advice take 2 Advil and keep moving. That said, that might be very bad advice if you don't have arthritis .
Post them on YouTube and then use links, but... you really need in person, professional guidance. The web is not likely to help you much, you need an experienced teacher in the same room as you are. If you'll tell us where you're located, the group can suggest localish instructors for you. Hire them, pay them what they ask, take a day or two off to meet with them, if you're serious about learning to play the DB without debilitating yourself.
Play a note. Stop. "Look" deeply into your body, especially your right hand. You will find tension and/or pain. Focus on releasing/relaxing. When all is good, play another note. Eventually, even when playing fast, you want these micro relaxations between every note. The time spent doing pizz right hand work is pretty short. Once you stroke through the string it's time to relax.
