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Rock and roll is dead?

I'm a rocker, plain and simple, and while I'll agree that rock music is evolving, It's also bringing up a whole generation of new bands, and old bands forming supergroups of new bands. Chickenfoot anyone? Seriously! With a line up of Sammy Hagar, Joe Satriani, Michael Anthony, and Chad Smith, all who are highly respected musicians, what's NOT to like here?

But for the less mainstream success (and another supergroup), have a look at Chrome Division with their cover of Ghost Riders In The Sky :D



Or one of their originals, Endless Nights

 
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I mentioned Tom Lehrer on another thread, and some of this one reminds me of one of his quotes; "It takes a lot of courage to stand up in the middle of a crowd of people and speak out for things other people are against, like peace and love and brotherhood and so forth."

Glenn Altschuler wrote an excellent study of early Rock and Roll in the 50s, with some attention to its revival after near-extinction in the 60s, and concluded that rock and roll never caused any of the changes that were going on in that era; it simply provided the soundtrack. The changes would have happened with or without rock and roll. It was important insofar as it provided an idiom for young people to express themselves. If it hadn't existed, the same changes would still have happened, with different posters on the walls.

Some have redirected the notion of rock being dead to mean that it's not as challenging or revolutionary anymore, compared to what it was in the past. I'd argue that this is an illusion and always was.
 
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I'm a rocker, plain and simple, and while I'll agree that rock music is evolving, It's also bringing up a whole generation of new bands, and old bands forming supergroups of new bands. Chickenfoot anyone? Seriously! With a line up of Sammy Hagar, Joe Satriani, Michael Anthony, and Chad Smith, all who are highly respected musicians, what's NOT to like here?

But for the less mainstream success (and another supergroup), have a look at Chrome Division with their cover of Ghost Riders In The Sky :D



Or one of their originals, Endless Nights


Yep. What about the one with Glen Hughes and the Bonamassa fellow. I forget what they call themselves.
 
If rock is dead, would I be going to this festival this weekend? Sure, a lot of these bands aren't HUGE, or are older, but the rocking and rolling will be in full force.

75-etxl1.jpg

I'm going as well, along with 5 buddies my age (all around 50 years old) and my wife. We'll see some of the older acts, certainly, but also some of the relatively newer ones and maybe even some up-and-comers.
 
I'm going as well, along with 5 buddies my age (all around 50 years old) and my wife. We'll see some of the older acts, certainly, but also some of the relatively newer ones and maybe even some up-and-comers.

That's awesome. I didn't make it last year, but when I went 2 years ago, I was happily surprised to see a good number of folks around your age and well as a pit full of kids younger than me.
 
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I'm going as well, along with 5 buddies my age (all around 50 years old) and my wife. We'll see some of the older acts, certainly, but also some of the relatively newer ones and maybe even some up-and-comers.

While I am happy to see that there will be a music festival with so many bands; there is only one band on that entire list that I would like to see and that is Cheap Trick. However, at least it is a major festival featuring live bands and that is a plus these days.
 
One of the dumbest things I've heard recently was a radio DJ in LA talking about how Tom Petty had a new album out with a bunch of great new material, and then proceeded to play one of his dinosaur tracks. Good work on the part of the Program Director. Somebody is c-blocking new material from reaching us, even for established acts.


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt
 
It's a little more complex than that. There are two separate things happening here that happen to dovetail together. Let me see if I can clarify them.

The argument that Gene Simmons makes is that as a Rock music as a viable economic opportunity for up and coming musicians is "dead." Now there are many things people can say about Simmons, much of it not good, but he certainly knows how to make being a musician profitable. His sentiment isn't unique either as I've hear many "classic" rock/metal musicians say that if they would never would have tried to be musicians in today's markets. Rob Flynn has made his feelings about how rock bands are treated these days well known and Greg Christian of Testament recently explained that at the end of the year he barely clears $35k, which is about what I make, I'm terribly underpaid, and his job is WAY harder than mine. There are bands with as much major support as you can get these days, that aren't doing "bad" things to waste money on the road, that can tour for a year straight just to break even. So I guess the click-bait headline "Rock is dead" isn't as accurate as "Rock Stars are Dead." The days of any rock musician buying multiple sports cars, mansions, and having endless supplies of women are dead. Top Ramen isn't just for struggling bands anymore.
The music of "rock" is, of course, not truly dead, just as Big Band isn't really dead. But neither are where they were at one point either. However the "rock" that is acceptable for modern radio stations, late night TV shows, and what's left of MTV, are rock in the loosest sense in that they have at least one guy with a guitar and no backup dancers. The Urban Outfitters employee picks, hipster-chow that was mentioned earlier are to bands like Mastodon, Behemoth, Black Label Society, Crowbar and Opeth (all of which have had home run releases this year) as camomile tea is to a Doppelbock or Islay Scotch. Sure they are both beverages, but....
Rock that pushes buttons, makes people think, challenges authority in a meaningful way, or slams the status quo has been marginalized; so to say that its "dead" isn't completely accurate in this context either, but it certainly has been muzzled and neutered. Which brings me to the point you made about "What does clothing have to do with music anyway?" With the actual notes put on a CD, absolutely nothing. But Rock is more than that isn't it? Even from its earliest incarnations, where would Rock be without Elvis' hips and the Beatles shaggy hair? Its about attitude and emotion, its about giving the world the finger. I didn't care for glam/hair/butt rock so I'm glad its gone, and despite its questionable taste I'll take fringed leotards or spiked leather as being emblematic of rock over the high school math teacher or underfed, over manicured shim looks that are prevalent now. Its not the look as much as the weak, submissive, non-threatening attitude it represents.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but $%&# it. Why? Because not giving two @$%s is rock \m/

"The Urban Outfitters employee picks, hipster-chow that was mentioned earlier are to bands like Mastodon, Behemoth, Black Label Society, Crowbar and Opeth (all of which have had home run releases this year)"

I must say if the bands you mention are examples of "Rock" then give me the Urban Outfitter employee picks.

There is plenty of rebellious attitude around, and a lot of people not giving a #@$%. The genres are changing (those bands you name are metal bands, not rock as I would define the genre so maybe the definition has changed).

As for the weak, submissive attitude, I suppose some indie bands do that, but there are plenty of bands that don't. Do we all have to look like a member of Slipknot before we can be rock again?
It seems to me you're just watching Austin City Limits and thinking that's "Rock".

You're right about the music industry but what can you do? There are people with $200,000 degrees that aren't being valued worth a @#$% either. All those rock "not giving two @#$%s" people have grown up and are now CEOs not giving two #$%^s about anyone.
 
Rock that pushes buttons, makes people think, challenges authority in a meaningful way, or slams the status quo has been marginalized; so to say that its "dead" isn't completely accurate in this context either, but it certainly has been muzzled and neutered.
I would argue that rock that fits this description has, with the exception of a few years here and there and a few other bands or albums, been out of the mainstream since at least the early '70s. Rock grew fat and lazy, thus the need for punk to kick it in the ass in the late '70s. But then punk's influence on the mainstream wasn't really felt again until the grunge period--the '80s were dominated by hair bands and overproduced Brit pop.
 
"The Urban Outfitters employee picks, hipster-chow that was mentioned earlier are to bands like Mastodon, Behemoth, Black Label Society, Crowbar and Opeth (all of which have had home run releases this year)"

I must say if the bands you mention are examples of "Rock" then give me the Urban Outfitter employee picks.

There is plenty of rebellious attitude around, and a lot of people not giving a #@$%. The genres are changing (those bands you name are metal bands, not rock as I would define the genre so maybe the definition has changed).

As for the weak, submissive attitude, I suppose some indie bands do that, but there are plenty of bands that don't. Do we all have to look like a member of Slipknot before we can be rock again?
It seems to me you're just watching Austin City Limits and thinking that's "Rock".

You're right about the music industry but what can you do? There are people with $200,000 degrees that aren't being valued worth a @#$% either. All those rock "not giving two @#$%s" people have grown up and are now CEOs not giving two #$%^s about anyone.

Examples of the rock-lite stuff I'm think of would be Arctic Monkeys, Black Keys, Imagine Dragons, Vampire Weekend, Cage the Elephant, etc. Almost ever night on at least one late night talk show there is a band with a forgettable obscure name to match their forgettable music that looks like they are on their way to Wes Anderson movie casting call. Its hard to remember them all.

I'll have to admit my ignorance regarding the Austin City Limits thing; I have no idea what that is. You don't have to be Slipknot to look rock (although it wouldn't hurt), but there is a wide range of things between that and the dweebs in Fall Out Boy.

Your last statement made me think a little. A lot of rock legends of old are lamenting the difficulties young acts face at the hands of record companies, but what are they doing about it themselves? The only established artist I'm personally aware of that is trying to push new acts and keep rock alive is Jack White (I'm not a fan of Johnny Depp's and Jack Skellington's love child either). Maybe if Gene wanted to help save rock he should get together with some fellow octogenarian rockers and start a label, or a couple of labels. Give musicians an option besides what I think amounts to three record labels when you do the math on who owns who.
 
Examples of the rock-lite stuff I'm think of would be Arctic Monkeys, Black Keys, Imagine Dragons, Vampire Weekend, Cage the Elephant, etc. Almost ever night on at least one late night talk show there is a band with a forgettable obscure name to match their forgettable music that looks like they are on their way to Wes Anderson movie casting call. Its hard to remember them all.

I'll have to admit my ignorance regarding the Austin City Limits thing; I have no idea what that is. You don't have to be Slipknot to look rock (although it wouldn't hurt), but there is a wide range of things between that and the dweebs in Fall Out Boy.

Your last statement made me think a little. A lot of rock legends of old are lamenting the difficulties young acts face at the hands of record companies, but what are they doing about it themselves? The only established artist I'm personally aware of that is trying to push new acts and keep rock alive is Jack White (I'm not a fan of Johnny Depp's and Jack Skellington's love child either). Maybe if Gene wanted to help save rock he should get together with some fellow octogenarian rockers and start a label, or a couple of labels. Give musicians an option besides what I think amounts to three record labels when you do the math on who owns who.

Its funny the different views. I consider Artic Monkeys, Black Keys, etc to be good rock bands. While to me, all the heavy stuff is obscure and forgettable. My point I guess is that rock is a bit broader than our own personal taste.

Gene only helps himself.
 
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Examples of the rock-lite stuff I'm think of would be Arctic Monkeys, Black Keys, Imagine Dragons, Vampire Weekend, Cage the Elephant, etc. Almost ever night on at least one late night talk show there is a band with a forgettable obscure name to match their forgettable music that looks like they are on their way to Wes Anderson movie casting call. Its hard to remember them all.

I'll have to admit my ignorance regarding the Austin City Limits thing; I have no idea what that is. You don't have to be Slipknot to look rock (although it wouldn't hurt), but there is a wide range of things between that and the dweebs in Fall Out Boy.

Your last statement made me think a little. A lot of rock legends of old are lamenting the difficulties young acts face at the hands of record companies, but what are they doing about it themselves? The only established artist I'm personally aware of that is trying to push new acts and keep rock alive is Jack White (I'm not a fan of Johnny Depp's and Jack Skellington's love child either). Maybe if Gene wanted to help save rock he should get together with some fellow octogenarian rockers and start a label, or a couple of labels. Give musicians an option besides what I think amounts to three record labels when you do the math on who owns who.

Just goes to show...I wouldn't really consider most of the bands you listed as the better examples of contemporary rock, at least in the most fundamental sense. Everyone has a different idea of what rock really is and what it means to them. To me, rock is essentially composed of an ensemble that plays electric instruments, deriving elements from forms such as early blues, country, jazz and R&B, with a minimalist approach to technological supplement in the recording and performance aspect. That's MY definition and is the measure by which I judge a band to be "rock".

It might be a stubborn perspective, but it's worked for me and has led me to discovering some really great bands, regardless of the context or genre they get lumped in with. Granted, my tastes run a little less mainstream, but to me it's all there is that doesn't suck.
 
Examples of the rock-lite stuff I'm think of would be Arctic Monkeys, Black Keys, Imagine Dragons, Vampire Weekend, Cage the Elephant, etc. Almost ever night on at least one late night talk show there is a band with a forgettable obscure name to match their forgettable music that looks like they are on their way to Wes Anderson movie casting call. Its hard to remember them all.

I'll have to admit my ignorance regarding the Austin City Limits thing; I have no idea what that is. You don't have to be Slipknot to look rock (although it wouldn't hurt), but there is a wide range of things between that and the dweebs in Fall Out Boy.

Your last statement made me think a little. A lot of rock legends of old are lamenting the difficulties young acts face at the hands of record companies, but what are they doing about it themselves? The only established artist I'm personally aware of that is trying to push new acts and keep rock alive is Jack White (I'm not a fan of Johnny Depp's and Jack Skellington's love child either). Maybe if Gene wanted to help save rock he should get together with some fellow octogenarian rockers and start a label, or a couple of labels. Give musicians an option besides what I think amounts to three record labels when you do the math on who owns who.

... Slipknot is metal and Fall Out Boy is more Pop-punk as for the others band, from what I heard I wouldn't put them in the "rock" genre at all , more like Pop or Brit Pop stuff like that.
 
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