Room tuned to F#

[kirkdickinson]

Had a gig last night at a church and the church resonated right on F#. The designer of the church could not have designed it any better to mess up anybody playing F#.

When I would hit an F#, it would instantly double or almost triple my output. Very crazy. I tried to remember to play it lighter, but couldn't always remember to do so. It effected mostly the lower two F#'s but the upper ones were also boosted by the room.

If I landed on an F# as the root, I could remember to hit it light, but if I used it as a transition, it kept getting me. A lot of our songs are in D and that F# kept catching me on transitions when I reached for a major third of the I chord to transition to the IV chord.

How do other players handle situations like this when the room resonates on a certain note?

 

[CrewsControl]

Through your cab, or the church's PA? If the PA, it's the sound guy's task to solve those problems.

 

[Febs]

How do other players handle situations like this when the room resonates on a certain note?

Notch out those frequencies with a good equalizer.

 

[Langer93]

Hmm Craahahahahazy stuff happens with acoustics. Some rooms bounce out all matter of filth What sort of EQ are you using? I would say either try eliminating/scooping the specific freqs that cause it to happen OR other than what you say "playing lighter", Try some heavier compression, volume down and a tadd more high mids to your sounds. Really hope that helps

 

[carl h.]

parametric EQ

 

[Langer93]

+1 febs

 

[kirkdickinson]

I have a good compressor, didn't have it hooked up, but that wouldn't have changed anything, the resonance was after leaving the cabinet. I was running just on my own cabinet. Small church, we took our own pa and only ran vocals through it.

I have an Aguilar Tone Hammer pedal on my pedalboard, but didn't take the board to the little church. We were doing a lot of praise and hymn and I didn't need any effects.

I guess a good parametric eq would have helped, but am not sure. I looked up the frequencies for F# on the bass are aprox: 46, 93, and 185, not sure how well a parametric eq would do targeting exactly those frequencies. Would need a pretty good one. A rack mount eq with 31 bands might do a pretty good job of notching just those specific frequencies, but I am not ready for a full rack of stuff yet.

 

[Hactar]

A parametric EQ will do better than a graphic EQ, because you will be able to sweep a notch until you find the offending freq.

However, it seems that an EQ with harmonics would be even better, that is, diminishing peaks at the harmonics of the frequency.

Not that many around, all I can think of is MEqualizer, a free plugin from MeldaProductions. Not so great for live work...

 

[kirkdickinson]

Hmm Craahahahahazy stuff happens with acoustics. Some rooms bounce out all matter of filth What sort of EQ are you using? I would say either try eliminating/scooping the specific freqs that cause it to happen OR other than what you say "playing lighter", Try some heavier compression, volume down and a tadd more high mids to your sounds. Really hope that helps

Thankfully, this doesn't happen very much. This was the worst I ever heard. Our old practice place resonated in C, and if the guitar and the bass hit C at the same time, it was chaos, but no audience there to worry about.

 

[kirkdickinson]

A parametric EQ will do better than a graphic EQ, because you will be able to sweep a notch until you find the offending freq.

However, it seems that an EQ with harmonics would be even better, that is, diminishing peaks at the harmonics of the frequency.

Not that many around, all I can think of is MEqualizer, a free plugin from MeldaProductions. Not so great for live work...

Wow, never heard of a Parametric EQ with harmonics? That would be cool for these instances.

If a Parmetric EQ had 5 fully adjustable points, I would think it would be a cinch to nail down the offending frequencies and their octaves. Maybe only a 3 band, but you couldn't use it for any other tone control only fixing the offending peaks.

Glad I don't have this problem every time. I tried to move off the root if it was F# before it started building a resonance, and play a 3rd or 5th. That helped some of the time.

 

[1958Bassman]

Through your cab, or the church's PA? If the PA, it's the sound guy's task to solve those problems.

He can't. It's caused by a room mode and the only real way to correct it is acoustical dampening, like a bass trap, acoustic panels, etc. EQ-ing it out screws up the sound of the whole band. It's because the room's dimensions fall at the F# wavelength (or a multiple of it) and it could be any combination of the width, height and length being close to the same.

 

[kirkdickinson]

He can't. It's caused by a room mode and the only real way to correct it is acoustical dampening, like a bass trap, acoustic panels, etc. EQ-ing it out screws up the sound of the whole band. It's because the room's dimensions fall at the F# wavelength (or a multiple of it) and it could be any combination of the width, height and length being close to the same.

You think notching out the offending frequency and its octaves on a parametric eq would help?

I wasn't getting just a "Slight" increase in volume with F#, but I was getting a "HUGE" increase.

 

[kedo]

You need to hire an acoustician.

Edit: Okay, not you, personally, but the church... they need to hire an acoustician.

 

[Rhon]

wouldn't that mean everyone playing an F# chord or note would be experiencing the same problem? if they were then it shouldn't matter because everyone would be experiencing that problem and the sound would blend, but if you're the only one experiencing that problem then its a different problem.

but that's just my guess, i'm not an expert.

 

[Craig_S]

Did you try moving your rig to a different place or maybe turning it slightly?

 

[kirkdickinson]

I was experiencing the problem the most, but I also had the only instrument that hit an F# at 46 Hz, I also hit it at 93 Hz and the reaction was less. We didn't experiment much with it, but when I hit a root at F# the guitar player was also playing an F# chord. I did notice that the bass alone was able to cause quite a feedback loop of audio resonance with or without the guitar player.

I didn't reposition my amp, but should have tried that. I wasn't thinking to try that to solve the problem. But I will next time.

 

[F-Clef-Jef]

Did you try moving your rig to a different place or maybe turning it slightly?

I've seen this work. A little EQ'ing never hurts either!

 

[Hactar]

You think notching out the offending frequency and its octaves on a parametric eq would help?

I wasn't getting just a "Slight" increase in volume with F#, but I was getting a "HUGE" increase.

Really, EQ'ing out the offending frequency may be a solution or it may not make much of a difference. But either way, EQ'ing the problem away is a temporary solution at best.

To properly deal with this, the church needs to understand the problem and get an acoustician to toss a bucket of bass traps at the room.

I do like the suggestion of moving your rig, it could help a lot.

 

[kirkdickinson]

Thanks for all the replies.

Kirk

 

[JimmyM]

Have the building torn down and rebuilt.