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Roscoe with Aguilar Preamp

#21
Halftooth said:
Gard,
What's the reason for not having the push/pull mid on the Demeter? Is there a way that you can add the Demeter without adding the switch? Also, what are the differences between the standard Demeter pre and the one used for Roscoes? My guess would be that the mid frequencies may be different for the Roscoe ones, but that's just a guess.
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I hope that Gard doesn't mind if I comment here. I was one of the first to jump on the band wagon after emjazz installed the Demeter in his Roscoe so I did a great deal of research. The Demeter requires 100K pots and I searched the world over and 100K push/pull pots just aren't available. James Demeter clearly states that changing the pot value to 50K will affect the sound.
As for the mod's made to the Roscoe tuned Demeter, James and Adam (at Demeter) tweaked a stock Demeter pre in a Roscoe at their factory until they heard the mids that they prefered. According to Adam it was basically tuning the circuit using different value caps and resistors.
 
#22
JOME77 said:
I hope that Gard doesn't mind if I comment here. I was one of the first to jump on the band wagon after emjazz installed the Demeter in his Roscoe so I did a great deal of research. The Demeter requires 100K pots and I searched the world over and 100K push/pull pots just aren't available. James Demeter clearly states that changing the pot value to 50K will affect the sound.
As for the mod's made to the Roscoe tuned Demeter, James and Adam (at Demeter) tweaked a stock Demeter pre in a Roscoe at their factory until they heard the mids that they prefered. According to Adam it was basically tuning the circuit using different value caps and resistors.
Click to expand...
So if I understand correctly, if we want a switchable mid point, we're installing a separate switch somewhere, but otherwise, we "shouldn't need it" in their opinion. Correct?

Silly question time: Why in the heck would they pick such an ODD pot value when 25k, (and especially) 250k, and 500k are pretty much industry standards??????????????? :mad:
 
#23
vics said:
So if I understand correctly, if we want a switchable mid point, we're installing a separate switch somewhere, but otherwise, we "shouldn't need it" in their opinion. Correct?

Silly question time: Why in the heck would they pick such an ODD pot value when 25k, (and especially) 250k, and 500k are pretty much industry standards??????????????? :mad:
Click to expand...

vics,
That is correct. The switch in one position really adds some nice mids (compared to the other position which is more subtle). You could also get Demeter to make you a pre with the circuit tuned to one of the two chosen center mid freqency (or have them tune it to a custom prefered center freq). I'm not sure why Demeter chose the 100K value of pot's but I'm sure he has his reasons (and based on how the pre sounds, they may hold water).

You also might want to check out this thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113281&page=1&pp=20&highlight=demeter
 
#25
OK. I can't resist a Roscoe thread.

I've got the reverse of what most of you guys have/ want. I have a fretted SKB-3006 with the Bart preamp and a SKB-3005 fretless with the Demeter preamp.

I'm most likely going to change out the Bart pre in the fretted 3006 for the Demeter-- and there's no way in hell that I'm going to do it. Keith and the boys will do it right I'm sure.

I really have to say that the Demeter in the fretless sounds absolutely wonderful. I was conserned that it would be too bright with the ash body and the Demeter preamp. I boost the bass a little and the mids a little and the bass sings. Mwah to die for-- just ask Mr. Gard. He was hoping I wouldn't like the bass because he wanted it. But not a chance in hell will I ever give it up.

Even the guys in the band love the way it sounds more than the Barted fretted bass. It's a lot more clear, but I also get that fat grandma hug sound that I like. I can't comment on the Agie preamp, but I'm sold on the Demeter in any Roscoe! And I wanted to like the Bart more due to that whole Italian thing. The Demeter is much quieter than the Bart too.
 
#26
Yup, you want the switchable mids, you put the switch in, that's that. Worth the small hole, if you ask me, because BOTH midpoints are very useable! However, I strongly recommend that if you are not a competent repairman in your own right, you have it done by someone that IS. Polyester finishes can be very unforgiving....

Joe, thanks for stepping in with the 100K push/pull explaination, saved me some typin'! ;)

Bob's right, I've got my ninjas :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: watching him for a chance...that bass will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine...

;)

...the Demeter sounds AMAZING in that bass! :hyper:
 
#28
I really have to say that the Demeter in the fretless sounds absolutely wonderful. I was conserned that it would be too bright with the ash body and the Demeter preamp.
Click to expand...

I was just going over this issue with Deichman the other day and thought that it was important to point a few things out. First, to my ear, there are differences between the two preamps (Bart and Demeter), and there will also be differences if we were to factor the Aggie 2 or 3 band in as well. But...I think that it is important to qualify the "differences" that we're talking about. In my opinion, while there are differences, the overall tone of the various preamps is not the difference between "black and white" or "night and day". Whether you have the Bart, Aggie, or Demeter pre, your bass should still sound like a Roscoe and should still have the classic tonal elements that we commonly associate with Roscoe basses. However, the preamp and it's "voice" will be impacted by which brand you're talking about. The Bart system is a little darker, the Aggie and the Demeter pres will open up the highs a bit, etc. Depending on your playing style, one or more of these aspects may be more or less desirable, but I think that the overall theme stays the same. Granted, some people feel more passionately about preamps than others do, and to some players, the brand of preamp has absolutely no impact on their decision to purchase a bass. Just thought I'd throw out a few comments, as I'd hate for someone to get the idea that "one preamp is bad as compared to another". I know that's not what you guys are talking about, but it certainly doesn't hurt to point out the obvious sometimes!!! :)
 
#29
JPJ:

I would have to agree with you. I'm just saying that the Demeter sounded more clear compared to the Bart preamp. They both definitely sound like Roscoes. I just prefer the Demeter with the clearer tone.

As I've said in other threads about other basses as well. We are very lucky to be playing bass at this point in time with all the wonderful and different basses out there. If you prefer Roscoe, Fodera, Zon, Warwick, Fender or any of the other high end or middle of the road basses, they are all out there for you to choose. And then you can customize many of the makes out there too.
 
#31
JPJ said:
I was just going over this issue with Deichman the other day and thought that it was important to point a few things out. First, to my ear, there are differences between the two preamps (Bart and Demeter), and there will also be differences if we were to factor the Aggie 2 or 3 band in as well. But...I think that it is important to qualify the "differences" that we're talking about. In my opinion, while there are differences, the overall tone of the various preamps is not the difference between "black and white" or "night and day". Whether you have the Bart, Aggie, or Demeter pre, your bass should still sound like a Roscoe and should still have the classic tonal elements that we commonly associate with Roscoe basses. However, the preamp and it's "voice" will be impacted by which brand you're talking about. The Bart system is a little darker, the Aggie and the Demeter pres will open up the highs a bit, etc. Depending on your playing style, one or more of these aspects may be more or less desirable, but I think that the overall theme stays the same. Granted, some people feel more passionately about preamps than others do, and to some players, the brand of preamp has absolutely no impact on their decision to purchase a bass. Just thought I'd throw out a few comments, as I'd hate for someone to get the idea that "one preamp is bad as compared to another". I know that's not what you guys are talking about, but it certainly doesn't hurt to point out the obvious sometimes!!! :)
Click to expand...

Well stated JPJ. Bart makes a great pre.
I played Roscoe basses exclusively for 8 years and during that time, all of my Roscoes had Bart pre's installed. I always thought that I got a great sound. The first Demeter that I installed in one of my Roscoes (about 1 year ago) was a stock pre and while I was initially impressed with the open and warm sound, I eventually felt that it lacked adequate mid freq control. I eventually took the Demeter out and reinstalled the Bart 3-band. Several months later I purchased a 3006 with the Roscoe tuned Demeter and feel in love with the sound. Much better mids. Maybe it was just time for a variation in my sound but I'm really digging the sound of the Demeter and Aguilar pre's in my Roscoe 3006's. I also think that the SKB body and additional wood used for the 6 string neck may be adding some additonal phattness to the sound. At any rate, I'm in Roscoe heaven! :hyper:
 
#32
Bassmanbob said:
As I've said in other threads about other basses as well. We are very lucky to be playing bass at this point in time with all the wonderful and different basses out there.
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No we're not! Have you seen my bank account lately, you idiot!?!?! ;)

P.S. Since we're generally lovin' Roscoes here... I had to have mine refretted recently (long story) and had Lull's shop do it. The results were awesome. I can not recommend them highly enough. My LG has never played more evenly or effortlessly.
 
#36
5bassman said:
I recently purchased a used Roscoe SKB 3005 w/ Barts aand Aguilar pres and I love the sound! Mines the 2 band.
Click to expand...

Do you get enough mid control with the bridge p/u solo'd with the Aggie 2 band? My concern with the OBP-1 has always been based on my experience with the Bart 2-band which IMO just doesn't provide adequate control of the mids.
 
#38
5bassman said:
I recently purchased a used Roscoe SKB 3005 w/ Barts aand Aguilar pres and I love the sound! Mines the 2 band.
Click to expand...

That's the only pre that I think wouldn't be a good fit with a Roscoe. I think the mid control is essential for Roscoes. I use the mid control more than any other knob on my Roscoes. Plus, the boost only to me isn't really that flexible...to me it means you need to use some type of eq pedal to alter your tone on the fly.
 
#39
Halftooth said:
That's the only pre that I think wouldn't be a good fit with a Roscoe. I think the mid control is essential for Roscoes. I use the mid control more than any other knob on my Roscoes. Plus, the boost only to me isn't really that flexible...to me it means you need to use some type of eq pedal to alter your tone on the fly.
Click to expand...

For some people this is enough though. I find that for me, I set my sound and leave it. With the Demeter I boosted the bass a bit and left it at that. When I want a different sound than I move my hand to a different place on the string or balance the pickups differently. Again, it depends on how you use your bass and in what context. I personally do however like to cut the treble so just a boost circuit doesn't work for me either.
 
#40
Halftooth said:
I think the mid control is essential for Roscoes. I use the mid control more than any other knob on my Roscoes. Plus, the boost only to me isn't really that flexible...to me it means you need to use some type of eq pedal to alter your tone on the fly.
Click to expand...

I'm totally with you on that Gene. I use the mid control to go from a tone that just mixes or blends well with the music to a tone that's really cuts through the mix and drives the song. If I don't bring my fretless, a fretted Roscoe with the Aggie OBP-3 or Bart 3-band can provide enough mid boost that I can emulate a fretless nicely. The Roscoe tuned Demeter can do a fair job in that area but the mids are still fairly subtle in comparison to the 3-band Bart and Aggie.
I suppose you could tweak your amp some to get the variations of tone but I prefer to run my amps fairly flat. Plus, I'm not always playing in an area on stage close enough to access my amp.
 

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