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Routing for carbon fiber reinforcement

bajerovaquero

bajerovaquero

Sep 3, 2010
195
1
Granada, Spain
#1
Hi everybody.
I´m having a bad time trying to found the right bit for this work.
The strips are 0.1" or 2,5mm thick. The only router bits Ive found (in Hong Kong) have a 1/8 shank which means only good for Dremel...
Dremel is a fantastic tool but when it comes to route hard maple and wenge...

How do you deal with this kind of routing?
Is posible to found such small router bits in 1/4 size?
Go old school and use a chisel?:hiding:
 
#2
I wouldn't go the chisel way...

How deep are they? (this is considering the dremel option, I myself got a couple of really small bits for it although I haven't tried them on hard wood yet). Still I'd say that with many passes the results are still going to be better than with chisels.
The question is though, why don't you get more standard rods, let's say 5mm width? Seems like and easier and cheaper solution...
 
#5
Thanks for responding!

lvca said:
CMT has a 2mm diameter router bit, 6 cm shank (also avaliable in 6.35):

Invalid Link Removed

and 3mm diameter

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Yes! This weekend will be travelling to Madrid I hope find some time to visit Comercial Pazos, thanks for the info!

pilotjones said:
You can also rout channels for whatever oversize bit you have available, then fill the slots with the carbon strip plus a wood strip.
Click to expand...

I´ll use epoxy for sure, do you think is ok route 3mm and fill 0,5 with epoxy?
 
#6
octaedro7 said:
I wouldn't go the chisel way...

How deep are they? (this is considering the dremel option, I myself got a couple of really small bits for it although I haven't tried them on hard wood yet). Still I'd say that with many passes the results are still going to be better than with chisels.
The question is though, why don't you get more standard rods, let's say 5mm width? Seems like and easier and cheaper solution...
Click to expand...

Finding the right size in Spain is difficult to say at least.
Ive checked Dragonplate and CTS sales but the shipping cost are expensive, and I´m in the tight budget thing:hiding:
Are you thinkin in any particular dealer?
 
#10
bajerovaquero said:
Finding the right size in Spain is difficult to say at least.
Ive checked Dragonplate and CTS sales but the shipping cost are expensive, and I´m in the tight budget thing:hiding:
Are you thinkin in any particular dealer?
Click to expand...

You got a point there. I could never find a local supplier in Spain.
I contacted once Dragonplate, while their prices and variety are great their shipping charges to Europe were a deal breaker.

I don´t know how tight are you budget wise but Stewmac´s rods via USPS will end up being around 40€. With the benefit that in Spain they are not going to pay any duties.
There´s a supplier here in The Netherlands that charges 16€ each but I ignore how much would be the shipping. Try and get a quote (they take 2 weeks to deliver though) GuitarSupplies, dé webshop voor gitaarbouwonderdelen en gereedschappen
Have you asked Sasi from Bajistas.org?
EGILEGOR BASSES
He may have or direct you in the right way.
Also check out here:
Invalid Link Removed
They are expensive (gotoh) but I remember the shipping costs to be decent.
Also the guys of Best Bass Gear are very nice and their prices are slightly higher than stewmac. They don´t offer USPS shipping on their website but they do if you contact them.
Also if you check US ebay, there are many vendors that will even mark the package as gift assuring that you'll not have to pay duties. I don´t know if they sell CF rods but Perfect Pitch are super nice people. Ask them.
I have some experience buying from the states from Spain (in terms of customs and duties)
Drop me a message if you have doubts.
:bassist:
 
#11
octaedro7 said:
You got a point there. I could never find a local supplier in Spain.
I contacted once Dragonplate, while their prices and variety are great their shipping charges to Europe were a deal breaker.

I don´t know how tight are you budget wise but Stewmac´s rods via USPS will end up being around 40€. With the benefit that in Spain they are not going to pay any duties.
There´s a supplier here in The Netherlands that charges 16€ each but I ignore how much would be the shipping. Try and get a quote (they take 2 weeks to deliver though) GuitarSupplies, dé webshop voor gitaarbouwonderdelen en gereedschappen
Have you asked Sasi from Bajistas.org?
EGILEGOR BASSES
He may have or direct you in the right way.
Also check out here:
Invalid Link Removed
They are expensive (gotoh) but I remember the shipping costs to be decent.
Also the guys of Best Bass Gear are very nice and their prices are slightly higher than stewmac. They don´t offer USPS shipping on their website but they do if you contact them.
Also if you check US ebay, there are many vendors that will even mark the package as gift assuring that you'll not have to pay duties. I don´t know if they sell CF rods but Perfect Pitch are super nice people. Ask them.
I have some experience buying from the states from Spain (in terms of customs and duties)
Drop me a message if you have doubts.
:bassist:
Click to expand...

Cool! I buy my hardware in Soller, very good prices...
I also contacted with Dragonplate and the found the same

But been making some research...
I wrote CST for a shipping quote and they told me about +40$ via USPS check the T723L2 model:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
But I´ve checked the USPS website and they send rolls up to 36" for 11´60$ via First class mail international:
Link Removed
Just sent an email to the contact...

I´ll let you know
 
#12
Eureka!
Mailed Dragonplate and explained the shipping costs was a complete deal breaker. I told them also about First class shipping.
The problem was in this modality of shipment they dont provide tracking number.
So if you assume ALL responsability in case of lost or damage they will ship.:hiding:

Mmm, Im smelling cheap carbon fiber:D
 
#13
Cool. I also told them about the shipping being a deal breaker but they didn´t took it that well because instead of accepting the USPS as an alternative they just didn´t reply any more. I guess that I softened them for you ;)
Please give us feedback about the quality. BTW what did you choose? they have tons of different products many of them with luthery applications. I was tempted to try those hollow bars they have...
 
#14
octaedro7 said:
Cool. I also told them about the shipping being a deal breaker but they didn´t took it that well because instead of accepting the USPS as an alternative they just didn´t reply any more. I guess that I softened them for you ;)
Please give us feedback about the quality. BTW what did you choose? they have tons of different products many of them with luthery applications. I was tempted to try those hollow bars they have...
Click to expand...

Youre welcome:D
Im thinkin in a 0.125" x 0.375" x 24" in a five string and one .200" x .250" x 24" on my sixer plus two small0 .1"x.2" I already have.
Ill let you know.
Hollow? Why? Some classical guitar makers here in Granada make kind of hollow necks but wonder about the loss of stiffness, I assume we want to make a stiff neck with little section...
 
#15
Just a note about stiffening a neck with carbon fibre.

You can think of your CF strip as a beam with a rectangular cross section. The resistance of this beam to bending is in proportion to the breadth of the cross section multiplied by its depth cubed. i.e. b x d x d x d.

It follows then that the same beam is much more resistant to bending when it’s upright than when it’s lying flat. Think of your .375 x .125 strip. It has proportions of three to one. Upright, the formula gives 1x3x3x3 = 27. Flat, it gives 3x1x1x1 = 3. So it’s 9 times more resistant when used upright than when used flat.

If you apply this formula to the sections you propose to use for your basses you’ll find that your single .375 x .125 strip for your 5-string is 1.4 times more resistant than the other three sections added together.

You perhaps knew all this but I thought it might be worth pointing it out.
 
#16
Dave Higham said:
Just a note about stiffening a neck with carbon fibre.

You can think of your CF strip as a beam with a rectangular cross section. The resistance of this beam to bending is in proportion to the breadth of the cross section multiplied by its depth cubed. i.e. b x d x d x d.

It follows then that the same beam is much more resistant to bending when it’s upright than when it’s lying flat. Think of your .375 x .125 strip. It has proportions of three to one. Upright, the formula gives 1x3x3x3 = 27. Flat, it gives 3x1x1x1 = 3. So it’s 9 times more resistant when used upright than when used flat.

If you apply this formula to the sections you propose to use for your basses you’ll find that your single .375 x .125 strip for your 5-string is 1.4 times more resistant than the other three sections added together.

You perhaps knew all this but I thought it might be worth pointing it out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing it out! Three .375 x .125 strips is the way to go for my sixer.
Thanks again!
 
#17
Oh, so you plan on using 3 on your sixer?
How do you plan to distribute them considering the TR? (I cannot picture it)
How thick do you plan the neck to be at the nut?
I ask you because you have chosen a pretty wide CF rod (width that´s gonna be used perpendicular to the fretboard); so 9,5 mm of total neck thickness are going to be used by the CF rods (and not particularly on the thickest part of the neck which is the center, where the TR goes). Considering that you have to sum up around 6 to 8 mm of fretboard, you have already used from 15,5 to 17,5 mm of the neck´s total thickness. So depending on the amount of material that you plan to leave between the rods an the back surface of the neck, you could either end up with a pretty thick and squared profiled neck otherwise a rather thin amount of material holding the rods in place...
You could also route a portion of the rods´cavities on the back of the FB and then gain some mm...
Perhaps I´m getting your ideas all wrong (likely ;) )
 
#18
octaedro7 said:
Oh, so you plan on using 3 on your sixer?
How do you plan to distribute them considering the TR? (I cannot picture it)
How thick do you plan the neck to be at the nut?
I ask you because you have chosen a pretty wide CF rod (width that´s gonna be used perpendicular to the fretboard); so 9,5 mm of total neck thickness are going to be used by the CF rods (and not particularly on the thickest part of the neck which is the center, where the TR goes). Considering that you have to sum up around 6 to 8 mm of fretboard, you have already used from 15,5 to 17,5 mm of the neck´s total thickness. So depending on the amount of material that you plan to leave between the rods an the back surface of the neck, you could either end up with a pretty thick and squared profiled neck otherwise a rather thin amount of material holding the rods in place...
You could also route a portion of the rods´cavities on the back of the FB and then gain some mm...
Perhaps I´m getting your ideas all wrong (likely ;) )
Click to expand...

Your argument is correct, I´m pointing to 22mm in first fret... so I dont know but I´m liking the idea of routing the back of the fingerboard;), otherwise I also have 0.1x 0.2 strips and also can thin a little the big ones. BTW sorry, made a mistake the real height of the strips is 0.325
Concerning the wood thing Iwilll use epoxy to install the strips so I dont really care about going to 4mm of wood
Time will tell....:D
 

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