Rumble 200 turned out to be eggshell fragile

[Texican]

Does he also have a YouTube channel where he professes his expertise as he reviews amps while he has his trusty toothless side kick hold his beer?

I don't believe them new-fangled internets have made it to his neck of the woods yet.

 

[seamonkey]

For a minimal - Use the cardboard box the amp came as a case. Paint it black, use a cargo strap to hold it closed. The boxes save the amp from the UPS gorillas, they are usually thick and can last a long time. And easy to replace if it gets trashed - but better the box than the gear.

 

[SoulReflection]

...yeah but my uncle's brother-in-law's neighbor had a friend that had a Rumble and he said the electronics were help together with scotch tape and half a bag of Big League Chew. I'm gonna go with that, rather than your statistical data, professional expertise, and industry "behind-the-scenes" insight.

Nice to see this thread taking on a more humorous mood .

 

[Mike Whitfield]

From the external cosmetic damage it appears to be an impact that should not render the piece of gear not worth fixing. Some may disagree with that assessment (without even seeing it), and valid point has been raised that the impact may have been more severe than the visible damage let on. Even with that in mind, it is not the kind of thing that would render an older combo silent. By comparison to say, 80s Peavey, it might be considered quite fragile now, wouldn't it? Maybe not eggshell, I'll admit to hyperbole, but the result is still no less surprising on my end. You can throw a TKO down a flight of stairs and still plug and play. And then you'd have to fix your stairs.

The old Peaveys are built like tanks. Nothing is built like that today, not even Peaveys. Part of that is economics, but another part is experience, people like agedhorse actually tracking how things typically get damaged. I think it’s certainly fair to say that a $500 Rumble is intentionally built less stout than a $2,000 Mesa, but also fair to say that yours must have taken a freak hit at just the right angle, force and height for maximum damage, because others’ experiences show that generally, Fender did a pretty good job.

I see no contradiction here. I’ve never damaged an amp (not a gigging musician) but I’ve certainly seen equipment extensively damaged from what I thought a trivial event and conversely, seen equipment undamaged when I expected to be sweeping up scrap.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

I have also seen (and designed) plenty of amps using (quality) PCB mounted 1/4" jacks with zero problems over tens of thousands of units. I actually looked at how many broken or damaged jacks and PCBs I have seen in the last ~10 years and there was exactly 1 damaged jack (input jack, amp fell off the cabinet with the bass plugged in) and zero damaged PCBs.

I track my own service data so that I know what's real and what's imagined. I know that Fender (and others) do the same, but sometimes damage happens for reasons beyond the manufacturer's control. Transporting a bass without a case in the back of a truck/van/SUVis unthinkable because of the potential damage, why not amps?

Here’s the difference between what I would do as an engineer with zero experience in amp design and what you do as an experienced amp engineer, because I’d decouple the exterior jack from my interior PCB. Thus I’d spend more manufacturing money and have additional fail points, and I’d be less competitive because I’m spending money fixing problems that statistically aren’t problems. (Different from Peavey where designing tanks was an informed design decision.)

 

[Scoops]

PCBs are not "brittle" or "fragile" if the designer chooses better quality materials. .062" FR-4 material, double sided with plated holes is amazingly robust. Traces do not have to be thin nor do pads have to be small of the designer prioritizes their layout for robustness.

A well designed, well laid out, well constructed PCB based amp is generally more reliable and robust than a hand wired amp, especially when built point to point. Not by a small margin either.

I question if it's FR4 in a Rumble.
Highly doubt it's a multi-layer

I haven't seen a PCB from a Fender amp for a while, but to keep costs down, it's more likely to be a single sided, paper based substrate

 

[Mike Whitfield]

I question if it's FR4 in a Rumble.
Highly doubt it's a multi-layer

I haven't seen a PCB from a Fender amp for a while, but to keep costs down, it's more likely to be a single sided, paper based substrate

That goes both ways though. If it’s a cheap board, then sure it breaks more easily, but it’s also easier to repair and cheaper to replace.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

Does he also have a YouTube channel where he professes his expertise as he reviews amps while he has his trusty toothless side kick hold his beer?

And start every video with “Here’s what the big amp manufacturers don’t want you to know.”

 

[Cave Puppy]

Not sure if this type of damage is covered under warranty, but we all know these amps have a 5 year warranty. I had a Rumble 500 that had a weird speaker buzz issue. I took it to an authorized Fender dealer and got the amp totally replaced in about a month. The offending part causing the issue wasn't replaced, the whole amp was replaced under warranty! Before I took it in I took the thing apart and did notice how inexpensively it was built but Fender wouldn't provide a 5 year warranty if they thought they would get a lot of warranty issues. What happened to your amp is definitely a freak accident. Yes I read the whole thread.

EDIT: I have been informed that as of 2017 it is a two-year non-transferable warranty.

 

[agedhorse]

Here’s the difference between what I would do as an engineer with zero experience in amp design and what you do as an experienced amp engineer, because I’d decouple the exterior jack from my interior PCB. Thus I’d spend more manufacturing money and have additional fail points, and I’d be less competitive because I’m spending money fixing problems that statistically aren’t problems. (Different from Peavey where designing tanks was an informed design decision.)

Or you could simply use higher quality parts and assembly methods so that it's not an issue at all.

I question if it's FR4 in a Rumble.
Highly doubt it's a multi-layer

I haven't seen a PCB from a Fender amp for a while, but to keep costs down, it's more likely to be a single sided, paper based substrate

Everything I have seen in that Rumble series is FR4 (or FR4+), most is double sided but not multi-layer. None is paper/phenolic.

 

[Lowandfat]

Update, it is the pre-amp board that is shot, power stage seems to be OK. Since its a modular build (sealed box behind it) I can keep the whole amp section "as is" until we see if the experimenting works. No matter what happens now, we can screw it back together and sell it as parts/salvage. Somebody with the need will get a deal, and I won't lose much if anything.

 

[G-Dog]

... ... we all know these amps have a 5 year warranty. ... ... .

The legendary Fender 5-year transferable warranty is fading into history. As of January 1, 2017 the warranty is 2-year non-transferable. (sigh)
.

 

[agedhorse]

I still think the amp is economically repairable with the right tech.

 

[Cave Puppy]

The legendary Fender 5-year transferable warranty is fading into history. As of January 1, 2017 the warranty is 2-year non-transferable. (sigh)
.

Oh Dang .. Never mind

 

[G-Dog]

The legendary Fender 5-year transferable warranty is fading into history. As of January 1, 2017 the warranty is 2-year non-transferable. (sigh)
.

Oh Dang .. Never mind

But, I just recently read of a 3½ year old Rumble combo now being replaced under warranty! So, the 5 year warranties aren't extinct yet.
.

 

[minddrain]

I had considered this amp before going with the AshDown. Glad I purchased what I did.

Interesting side note. I saw The Cult this last weekend. The Bassist used Fender amps while the guitarist used a Vox and two Orange Amps.

 

[tom dicus]

When I decided to get my older brother a new guitar for helping me with some plumbing, I wanted to get him a US Stratocaster rather than a Gibson, which he has played for 40 years. The reason is simple, Fender have been consistent since their founding. Now the days of US built Fender amps are long gone, but they're still the most consistently dependable amp made, in my opinion, and I think with their record we should look at this particular case as it is, an anomaly. Its unfortunate that it happened and I'm sorry for that, but I still think Fender are a solid manufacturer and for the money, I don't think you can find better. Will I sell my US Ampeg SVT and replace it with a Mexican Fender? Not in a million years. Will I do the same with my Marshall VBA400? Never. But I won't sell my Rumble 200c any sooner either. The blessing for the OP is, now he has the opportunity for another fun project!

 

[Pilgrim]

Here’s the difference between what I would do as an engineer with zero experience in amp design and what you do as an experienced amp engineer, because I’d decouple the exterior jack from my interior PCB. Thus I’d spend more manufacturing money and have additional fail points, and I’d be less competitive because I’m spending money fixing problems that statistically aren’t problems. (Different from Peavey where designing tanks was an informed design decision.)

This is exactly what I think. I've seen terminal damage to circuit boards in computers and other devices because economics mandated soldering an external connector of some kind directly to the PC board. In laptops, one of the most common failures is having the power jack break loose from the board because something bumped up against the power connector and its leverage from the impact cracked the board.

It clearly would be more durable and avoid these problems if the exterior connectors were routed to the board via wires, creating a flexible connection which wouldn't be subject to impacts against the external connection jack. In fact, that would make external jacks serviceable independent of the board. The difference? Human labor that would be required to manipulate those small wires and do the soldering. Whether that would also increase the failure rate in bad solder joints, I'm not sure.

I'm not going to throw stones at Fender based on this design. It's common practice in industry, and it's part of the reason Fender can sell those amps at their price point. If I were buying a $2,000 amp I'd expect something different, but that's not the part of the market we're discussing.

 

[agedhorse]

If the jack is solidly connected to the chassis, and the parts are high quality, it's a non-issue. Floating jacks can't be assembled as you wish no matter what they are attached to (PCB or wires)

Fender does not float the jacks in this model.

 

[Furutan]

I bought a TuffBox case for my 500. Inexpensive, but adds enough protection for minor impacts.