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Rupert Neve Designs RNDI-S

#21
silky smoove said:
If you're wanting to add more color on the way into your Scarlett I would go a different route than a standalone DI. Specifically I would use a preamp known to saturate well such as a 1073 or clone. Alternatively an EQ, in the box or in the analog domain may be a good choice for adding beef as you mentioned.
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I went this route like 10 years ago. I started with a GAP 1073 like preamp the PRE-73 DLX, later I bought the Warm Audio WA76 comp and the Warm Audio API like preamp "Tonebeast".

Today I still own all this stuff along with a UA LA610 MKII channelstrip - kind of a 610 preamp combined with a LA2A downstripped comp - and a Klark Teknik LA2A clone.

I might have prefered the combination of the 610 with a 1176 like comp, but I would never invest that much money and I got the LA610 MKII relatively cheap used. The UA 6176 is about 3.000,-. Out of what I could justify or afford to buy.

I own the SSL SiX as a mixer.

The biggest difference ever was the WA76. When I started to use it, for the first time after playing bass for decades, I felt like I have the sound I always desired and no cheap or not so cheap compressor pedal or preamp ever gave me.

The preamps didn't make such a difference. Only used them to get my bass signal to line level for the WA76.
Today I mostly use the Universal Audio channel-strip if I am recording at home. It is a bit due to lazyness.
I still use the tonebeast into the WA76 into the Klark LA2A - a classic studio combination for bass as for vocals - mostly for vocals, but love it for bass, too.

My playing: I'm not into metal at all or rock sounds, most of the players that influenced me went straight into an analog board like Jamerson or Robbie Shakespeare or Bernard Edwards. But even in the indie-band I play, I would most of the times go for this sound.

Based on the sounds I(!) long for and just my experience and perspective:

DI's for sound and color: overrated

Preamps: a bit overrated, if you really want color you have to invest into a tube preamp, and not a cheap one. The transformer based preamps are good, but the impact isn't a game changer, it improves your sound if used the right way.

Compressors: esp. those with transformers or tubes have the highest impact, esp. in relation to the investment.

If I had to sell most of my gear, I would keep the WA76 and use it as an insert of my Tascam Model 12, or - if I could afford it - would keep the UA LA610.

The RNDI: nive to have and I keep it, but overpriced if bought for the impact on sound, esp. if you don't need a very good DI for live use.

Just my two cents.
 
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#24
DirkP said:
Preamps: a bit overrated, if you really want color you have to invest into a tube preamp, and not a cheap one. The transformer based preamps are good, but the impact isn't a game changer, it improves your sound if used the right way.
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I think that is often true with modern gear, but there are exceptions, specifically discrete transformer pres that can handle a healthy signal without an input pad, with output transformers that saturate on the early side, and an output attenuator (whether in the unit or after). Those can give joy in the same way that a colored tube pre does.
 
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#25
teleharmonium said:
I think that is often true with modern gear, but there are exceptions, specifically discrete transformer pres that can handle a healthy signal without an input pad, with output transformers that saturate on the early side, and an output attenuator (whether in the unit or after). Those can give joy in the same way that a colored tube pre does.
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That's definitely true, but typically only when the pre is pushed to the point of exposing some of its non-linearities when the transformers saturate. The same can be said of a tube-based design as well. I see so many posts online of people buying 1073s and 312s only to say things like "it doesn't sound any better than the preamps in my Scarlett" when they're not driving the inputs sufficiently to get the color and non-linearity out of them. Then there's the whole concept of being judicious of when to saturate and when not to saturate... how hard to saturate... Dealing with the consequences if you ran things too hot on the way into the box, etc. If only good judgement could be purchased as easily as new preamps :smug:
 
#27
silky smoove said:
I see so many posts online of people buying 1073s and 312s only to say things like "it doesn't sound any better than the preamps in my Scarlett" when they're not driving the inputs sufficiently to get the color and non-linearity out of them. Then there's the whole concept of being judicious of when to saturate and when not to saturate... how hard to saturate... Dealing with the consequences if you ran things too hot on the way into the box, etc. If only good judgement could be purchased as easily as new preamps :smug:
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This is where even just a few hours having a recording mentor that can show some, more or less, industry standard usage in person beats hundreds of hours of reading about this stuff online. It can save a fortune in bad purchases too.
 
#28
teleharmonium said:
This is where even just a few hours having a recording mentor that can show some, more or less, industry standard usage in person beats hundreds of hours of reading about this stuff online. It can save a fortune in bad purchases too.
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Agreed. Admittedly some of the paid content online from sites like Puremix and Mix With The Masters are quite high quality.
 
#29
silky smoove said:
Dealing with the consequences if you ran things too hot on the way into the box, etc.
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And related to that, being able to switch into that mode of committing on the way in. I do a lot of that, and my friends that are Gearspace junkies that didn't start out on tape sort of freak out when they see it. "What if you set the compressor wrong" ? Then you cut it again. But mostly, don't set the compressor wrong. If it's not a real fast and you're reducing 3 db, you're not going to kill anything. And sometimes, tracks need to be tased.

Time being the zero sum game that it is, risk aversion itself is a risk.
 
#33
teleharmonium said:
And related to that, being able to switch into that mode of committing on the way in.
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I split the room a bit on committing. If I'm producing and engineering on a session, or if I'm just engineering and the producer is someone I trust to provide competent direction then I get the band/artist sounding as close to final on the way in. I typically do all of it upstream of my system as I never track with compressors or EQ, just high quality preamps set appropriately for the goal. Give me all of the EQ'ing of guitar amps, bass amps, changing out drum heads and playing around with different dampening techniques, etc. I'll spend a huge amount of time getting it to sound like the final record with all faders at 0 and no inserts or aux sends being used. Those are my favorite sessions provided the artist/band has the budget to spend the time in the tracking phase doing it "correctly" and they either trust me to produce or have their own producer that I trust.

On the other hand, if I'm working with a producer that I'm unfamiliar with or one that's inexperienced, typically just the person in the band who stepped up to say they'd be the producer having never done it before, then I'll try to avoid chasing tones on the way in and will instead focus on getting good takes with tones that aren't too extreme in any given direction along with safety DIs as-needed so that I can get it to the place the producer will eventually want which in this situation they're extremely unlikely to know in advance. The same goes for times when I'm the session bassist or drummer on a remote gig where I've gotten limited direction, or the direction is "just give me something clean and easy to work with." On those it's a DI for the bass and maybe a very easy to work with mic'd option, or if I'm drumming I'll use my most middle-of-the-road snare a ported 18x22 kick with a little dampening and the safest mic options I can manage.
 
#35
silky smoove said:
I'll spend a huge amount of time getting it to sound like the final record with all faders at 0 and no inserts or aux sends being used. Those are my favorite sessions provided the artist/band has the budget to spend the time in the tracking phase doing it "correctly" and they either trust me to produce or have their own producer that I trust.
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That sounds like a good professional approach and an optimal situation.

When I print with effects it's broad stroke boost-only EQs from 2 or 4 band units that also have a bit of a tone sweetening contribution, or else mild to moderate compression/limiting, on tracks where I'm very sure they would get those effects no matter what, like bass drum and bass, and sometimes overheads if I'm using a darker pair. So there's really not much in the way of risk.

I'm usually not on paid sessions, and for one project I play with some older guys that want to work blindingly fast, because they are over 70 and only have like 3 hours. I figure it's helpful for me to get experience doing that. That habit crept into everything else.

But yeah it does relate to being able to take the time to get good sounds before tracking. If I can set up previously tested signal chains for things I'm pretty sure we will record, I don't start to burn their patience on setup and test recordings for those channels, but I get the benefit of previous sessions.
 

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