• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Sadowsky Modern 5 Metro Express:

'China is a special case'.... 'there are other considerations.' On what level(s), and with what further nuance? Prejudging something based on where it was made is..... tricky. Not just with basses and inanimate objects.

Sterling By MusicMan, for example, has their basses built in Indonesia and, to my knowledge, it's very difficult to get replacement necks - but you can buy parts from the SBMM website.... just like you can buy parts for MetroExpress basses from the Warwick USA website. Supply chain availability for parts in a number of industries has suffered for quite a while - it's not limited to basses. And whether or not you can get a new neck for X-brand Chinese made bass is more a matter of that brand stocking them domestically for the purposes of replacement. Buying a replacement neck for most ANY bass is going to be more difficult than other 'standard' parts, so that's really a spurious metric to use when judging the geographic location of where a bass is made. Also, the QC issues for Indonesian-made SBMM basses have been pretty numerous, as have QC issues for certain batches of MetroExpress basses. I'm sure others could also come up with examples which might add more pragmatic nuance to a discussion of the geographic influence over mass-produced manufacturing quality in terms of basses. Lakland used to have their Skylines made in Korea at the Cort factory.... then moved to Indonesia. Quality seemed, according to some, to drop or be more inconsistent when moved to Indonesia, at least at first. The Chinese-made Squier Classic Vibe basses from 2009/2010 or so are regarded to be some of the best Squiers ever made, and they have appreciated in value, especially on these forums. I own one and can speak to its quality in terms of feel, construction, and sound.

Indonesia/Korea/China aren't exactly worlds apart in terms of geography, so it seems that your issue with China as a manufacturing location is due to.... 'other considerations' indeed. Indonesian factories probably build as many basses in a given year as Chinese factories, all things being equal.

Roger builds his custom USA basses in New York. If he is looking to offer his designs on multiple price tiers, then making them in Ohio wouldn't make a difference, since costs of materials and labor would likely still be close to the NYC operation - maybe a hair lower if options were standardized. It very well could undercut his custom operation. Lakland has made a similar manufacturing model work this with their 'USA Classic' series, which are made in Chicago alongside the flagship models, but with less options at a *slightly* lower price. Shall we go on about the (now Indonesian made) Skyline series?

Is there a builder in Ohio who is ready and equipped to produce basses in the number (and at the quality level) that Roger wants, at a lower price than the MetroLine and NYC Custom Shop? If so, he'd likely have had that theoretical builder make the MetroLine basses, versus partnering with Warwick to build them in Germany. Roger frequents these forums and often chimes in where applicable. Maybe he'll answer your query directly.

'Ceteris paribus' indeed. Let's not pretend that the metrics you're using to prejudge Chinese-made basses are intended to be equal or in good faith in any way, from the get-go.
Pertaining to your opening:
We only use the term "made" for inanimate objects. Anything 'animate' or sentient is not generally referred to as "made."
"Prejudging" would imply that I was making a judgement prior to experience. I specifically offered anecdotal (first-person experiential) evidence relating to the specific kind we are discussing: Chinese-built basses.
Sterling may, indeed, have a difficult time getting replacement necks for their Indo-produced basses to the US. Your claim here is a non-sequitur. I didn't claim Indo-basses were easy to get replacement necks for, I claimed that Chinese-made basses, in my experience, were difficult to get replacement necks for. I claimed that Indo manufacturers weee doing a good job, implying no need for a replacement neck.
If one can get Sadowsky MetroExpress bass necks from the US Warwick supplier website, then I'll assume that must be a special order? This would have to count as special pleading on your part - specifically, privileged information - as I have scrolled through the 14 pages of available replacement parts on said website, and no replacement bass necks were extant on said website.
If it is the case that "supply chain parts in a number of industries has suffered for awhile," it nevertheless bears no weight in my earlier statement. Pancakes might suffer from international supply chain woes. That has nothing to do with Chinese manufactured bass necks or our discussion.
Whether or not "X-brand Chinese-made bass" replacement neck availability is a matter of "that brand stocking them domestically" isn't really an issue that you can speak to here, unless you can show me how I can get a Sadowsky replacement neck for the specific bass in question domestically. If you, in fact, can, then you only prove my above claim that you are appealing to special information you are privileged to, given that there are apparently no replacement necks on the website you cited. Also, if you can do so, why did you spend so much time authoring a lengthy polemic against me, instead of just directing me to the section of the website with said necks for sale?
The fact that "Buying a replacement neck for most ANY bass is going to be more difficult than other 'standard' parts" does not make my worries about such a fact "spurious" in nature - as you so eloquently accused - given that I brought up the possible need for a replacement neck specifically because it is a key - non- 'standard' - element of an electric bass, the defect of which defeats the entire function of the instrument. Standard parts aren't a worry for my opinionative statement: if I had been worried about a 'standard' part, it (trivially) wouldn't be problematic, since any number of third-party manufacturers could supply such a need. That is the opposite of a "spurious" metric, the neck is a major element inherent to the function of the electric bass in question.
If quality control issues have been an issue for Sterling by Music Man basses, it has no relevance to your polemic post. It could only support my opinion ("I wish these weren't made in China") given that you say such issues have been numerous, "as have QC issues for certain batches of Metro Express." That is my entire - plainly stated - issue with sino-produced instruments. Particularly those priced in this range.
That a line of Squire (CV) basses have appreciated in popularity and value from 15 years ago and "are regarded to be some of the best Squires ever made" is also a non-sequitur to this discussion, as I'm sure even you won't put a Squire bass (CV or other) into the same category of price/brand/quality expectation as the Sadowsky MetroLine.
Geography, as it relates to your "Indonesia/Korea/China" comparison has exactly nothing to do with my desire that these Sadowsky basses not be produced in a Chinese factory, nor my anecdotal support for said desire. It doesn't bear that "my issue with China as a manufacturing location" must be due to "other considerations, indeed." Even though this was a slick ad-hominem attack, it was merely an ad-hominem attack, indeed. Why, my friend, must my desire be due to "other considerations"?
Interestingly, some internet searches do bear out that 60 to 65% of guitars are built in the Cort-Tek factory in Surabaya, the Yamaha, and the Samick factories. So, my friend, you've made a likely quite viable claim about the volume of Chinese guitars and basses.
You mention in your third to last paragraph that a domestically made bass would undercut another domestically made line of basses from the same manufacturer - excepting without qualification that Lakland did exactly that with a line produced in Chicago. Then you mention that Roger Sadowsky could have had such a production partner make a mass production line in Germany, which he did not for this MetroExpress line… he made them in China. Your closing sentence for this paragraph asks "shall we go on about the (now Indonesian made) Skyline Series?" Well, I suppose you could have, though I'm not sure what the point would have been. You didn't elaborate.
Your closing, accusatory sentences are in keeping with the broad straw man you've sought to make of my claim that "I wish [MetrolineExpress basses] weren't made in China," yet are also problematic. You've accused me therein of prejudging Chinese-made basses. I have done no such thing. I have, in my possession, a Chinese-made bass, and a specific problem inherent in the production of that bass, and its supportive supply chain, could have rendered said bass wholly unplayable and a complete waste of money for at least 12 months.
I have simply implied a categorical syllogism by stating my opinion:
All A's are B's (all Chinese made basses are basses that could have this problem).
C is an A (MetroExpress is a Chinese made bass).
Therefore all C's are B's (MetroExpress basses could have this problem).
My opinion was not intended - nor did it prima facia appear - in any way, to be less than "equal or in good faith" as you put it.
When one strawman's another's position, that action itself is, by definition, not "intended to be… in good faith"… your entire post suffers from a lack of philosophical charity. You've presented my opinion as something completely different from what it was - clearly - and I don't appreciate that.
However, you did so with a fantastically glib and smart use of verbiage, and argued against what I don't say in a very eloquent and convincing manner. Nicely done!
 
Do you really believe that because you have one single kind of bass by X manufacturer with a problem, that all Chinese made basses are inferior? Your 'formula' seems to imply this. There was no attempt at straw man or ad hominem personal insults anywhere in my reply. There was a definite attempt to point out the flaw in applying your issues/opinion/experience to all Chinese made basses, simply because you had one bass with that problem.... which you seem to feel is representative of all Chinese made basses? I think that is a flawed, illogical way to look at it, and it does show that you are prejudging any bass made in China as being more likely to have a neck issue (or other major issue), with no way to really prove that. If you said that you've owned 10 Chinese made basses and 7 of them had similar neck issues.... I might say you have a case there. But one bass, by which all others are judged? That just seems to be in bad faith to me.
Yes I am free to make categorical syllogisms. Honestly my friend, I DO count it a problem that I was unable to get a replacement neck for a Chinese produced bass, since the reason was that it had to be shipped from China, and the reason people make mass produced instruments in China is to reduce cost; so since they ship en masse, it's very difficult to get a single replacement neck.
Never did I even imply that basses produced there were more likely to have a problematic neck.
So, yeah. I made a production out of responding to you because you made such a production out of responding to my claim that I wish these basses were not made in China.
Which, is, inarguably true. I do wish that. I never even implied that Chinese basses would be more likely to have problematic necks.
Anyway, I'll bet you'd write fun papers to grade.
Cheers!!
 
I DO count it a problem that I was unable to get a replacement neck for a Chinese produced bass, since the reason was that it had to be shipped from China, and the reason people make mass produced instruments in China is to reduce cost; so since they ship en masse, it's very difficult to get a single replacement neck.

Glad we cleared that up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mastiff_5
Nice color choice Doc!

IMG_0194.jpeg
 

Latest posts