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SansAmp VT Bass vs BDDI vs ParaDDI vs PSA

CrewsControl

CrewsControl

Dec 6, 2011
1,112
48
Hollywood, CA
#1
So, what are your thoughts on the differences and strengths of each SansAmp offering?

Seems each one comes with a setting in the manual to emulate the SVT amps. Even the ParaDDI. They all seem to have a "King's X" style setting. Not sure why that band has a sound on the SansAmp products, except that they were popular around the time Tech21 formed as a company. So I'm guessing there was some synergy between the band and the company.

I bought a PBDDI used from TB, and since then, I've stopped messing with any other fuzz/OD pedals. Bass Muff Pi, Markbass Distorsore - gone (will put up for sale on TB as soon as I get my PayPal account activated). I may even sell my Markbass Compressore, because I find that I don't want additional compression on my favorite PBDDI settings. I recently snagged a used Markbass Tube 800, so now I have a XLR input with 48V phantom power, which is great because the PBDDI is the only pedal sitting on the floor now. No more 9V wall warts (0r 12V for Markbass pedals)

I'm considering getting a BDDI Deluxe, so I can have 3 more programmed settings. BUT -

Would I enjoy a VT Bass Deluxe more? The ParaDDI doesn't come in a Deluxe or programmable version, unless you want to count the PSA1.1 rackmount preamp as the programmable version of that pedal.

SansAmp fans - tell me what you think of the choices Tech21 offers? Why do you prefer one style of SansAmp pedal or preamp over another?
 
#2
I used a SABDDI for years. I did several tours without an amp. Just the SABDDI into the PA with a little bass in the wedges. I picked up a paradriver about a year or so ago. I no longer use the SABDDI. The paradriver doesn't have the built in mid scoop that the SABDDI does. You can scoop out mids with the sweepable mid control if you want or you can boost bass and treble getting you a deeper mid cut if you so desire. For me though, I like the thing fairly flat with a little goosing of the mids around 800 or so. The gain knob also has WAY more drive on tap if you want it. That might be more effective on guitar, but it gets overkill really quick IMO for bass. The SABDDI has a specific thing it does, and it does it well. The paradriver will never nail that same vibe precisely. That being said, I find that the paradriver just works better for me as I am not a mid scooper.

The VT doesn't have a blend knob so it has never shown up on my radar. Also, there is no DI unless you go for the programmable version. Frankly, I really only need one setting per gig from my pedal/pre, so the extra real estate of the programmable version of any Tech 21 pedal is a deal breaker for me.
 
#3
I had a Programmable BDDI and returned it because it was too much of a fuss to get any mids out of it, and I had very little use for any more than one preset tone. I can see bands and bass styles where the tone of the BDDI would fit very well, but it wasn't for me. I now have a Para Driver DI and it rocks. Sometimes I run it into a power amp and cab, and sometimes it is my entire rig. Great tone either way, love the changeable mid frequencies, and the gain generated between the mid control and the drive control really adds lots of tubey warmth to the sound. Love it.

I haven't been able to perfectly replicate the BDDI tone though, even if I scoop the mids (maybe I'm scooping the wrong frequency? or maybe I'm dumb...) it doesn't bother me at all because it's not my kind of tone, but if you are looking for less mid-focused punch and more of a metallic scooped sound, use the BDDI. Otherwise, go with a PDDI, it kills.
 
#6
The reason I am asking is because one of my PBDDI settings is the clean boost. 0 Blend, 0 Drive, EQ flat (bass/treble at noon, presence at 0), Level 100%. Compared to bypass, all I get is more volume. I don't hear a built-in mid scoop. Does that come in only when I turn up the Drive?
 
#7
CrewsControl said:
The reason I am asking is because one of my PBDDI settings is the clean boost. 0 Blend, 0 Drive, EQ flat (bass/treble at noon, presence at 0), Level 100%. Compared to bypass, all I get is more volume. I don't hear a built-in mid scoop. Does that come in only when I turn up the Drive?
Click to expand...

The mid scoop is a product of the processing. You won't hear that processing unless you blend some wet in. Keeping the blend knob all the way to the left (ie: completely dry) won't give you a scooped tone. This is the reason most people don't recommend turning the blend knob up above noon. The mid scoop gets overkill above noon.
 
#8
Your signal is flat on all our products in bypass mode. You can turn off the SansAmp circuitry on our products with the blend control like the BDDI and Para Driver DI. If you set the tone controls at noon the sound is also flat.
 
#11
I thought the Presence knob was boost-only? So it needs to go to zero to be flat?
Click to expand...

The presence control will only work when the SansAmp circuit is engaged. By virtue of being an amp "emulator" the SansAmp circuitry is not flat response. A Fender Bassman, Ampeg SVT, Orange, Marshall etc are not flat by there very nature either. A Crest power amp is a "flat" response amp.

I'm wondering how do you get a good sound out of the BDDI. I've got one and other than sucking out my mids and perhaps adding a slight echo/reverb like feeling to my sound, I get nothing. :/
Click to expand...

Echo/reverb? I've never heard that before. My question is how are you using the BDDI and what are you trying to accomplish with it? Are you using it as a DI, as an amp emulator or as an overdrive/distortion pedal? Are you using it into the front end of a bass amp, into a power amp to a bass cab, direct to board? If into a bass amp, which one and how is it set? Is your bass active or passive? The reason I ask is that there are quite a number of variables in the equation and each one will play a part in determining your sound.

The "scooped" mids are intentional because many vintage and modern amps have that EQ curve built in. If you go into an amp with a mid-scoop and then plug in the BDDI the mid-scoop will probably be too much. It all depends how you have your amp (and sometimes bass) set. If the BDDI is too lacking in mids perhaps you should try our Para Driver DI. That has a more flexible EQ circuit and is in part intended for people that are looking for a different tone than the BDDI provides.
 
#12
tech21nyc said:
Echo/reverb? I've never heard that before. My question is how are you using the BDDI and what are you trying to accomplish with it? Are you using it as a DI, as an amp emulator or as an overdrive/distortion pedal? Are you using it into the front end of a bass amp, into a power amp to a bass cab, direct to board? If into a bass amp, which one and how is it set? Is your bass active or passive? The reason I ask is that there are quite a number of variables in the equation and each one will play a part in determining your sound.

The "scooped" mids are intentional because many vintage and modern amps have that EQ curve built in. If you go into an amp with a mid-scoop and then plug in the BDDI the mid-scoop will probably be too much. It all depends how you have your amp (and sometimes bass) set. If the BDDI is too lacking in mids perhaps you should try our Para Driver DI. That has a more flexible EQ circuit and is in part intended for people that are looking for a different tone than the BDDI provides.
Click to expand...

I'm using it as an amp emulator (passive bass->BDDI->front end of a nearly-flat-set MarkBass combo). The more I tune the Blend knob in (With the BDDI EQ and Drive flat, Presence off to 0), the worse my sound in the mix becomes.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound when I record it or when I play in my bedroom. It just doesn't do it justice with a band.:eyebrow:
 
#13
BullHorn said:
I'm using it as an amp emulator (passive bass->BDDI->front end of a nearly-flat-set MarkBass combo). The more I tune the Blend knob in (With the BDDI EQ and Drive flat, Presence off to 0), the worse my sound in the mix becomes.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound when I record it or when I play in my bedroom. It just doesn't do it justice with a band.:eyebrow:
Click to expand...

It's hard to say what "nearly-flat" means as far as the actual tone of the amp. Markbass amps have a pre-shape filter and it's impossible to say for certain what the actual frequency response is unless we measured it.

This is from Markbass:
The VPF (Variable Preshape Filter) boosts lows and highs, and cuts mids. Some call this kind of effect a scoop, a smiley-shape EQ, or an enhance knob. It's very effective for slap bass, pick playing, and driving eighth-note rock.
Click to expand...

If you have the drive control on the Bass Driver at noon that may be too much gain for your application. Try backing it down and see if that helps. It could just be that the EQ combination of our preamp and the Markbass don't suit your tastes even if you like the way the Bass Driver sounds direct for recording. I would normally suggest trying to bypass the Markbass' preamp section and using the efx return but Markbass amps have an unusual efx loop design.
 
#14
I am currently using the programable version. Not sure if I "need" 3 choices per gig or not, but I have used them. I have my presets as Fat Tube, SVT and Clean Boost. Depending on the tune I go between Tube and SVT. I like the Clean Boost for solos or if I want a more "modern" sound without the processing.

This and a tuner going into the front of a flat Genz Benz Shuttle combo.
 
#15
I never use the VPF together with BDDI, that's midscoop-overkill. And yes, the Effects Loop on my MarkBass is post-eq so there's no way to bypass the on-board EQ.

I mostly dislike how my P loses that midrange-y grit.

Too late for a PDDI, I'm way past the 14-days return policy. :p
 
#18
BullHorn said:
I never use the VPF together with BDDI, that's midscoop-overkill. And yes, the Effects Loop on my MarkBass is post-eq so there's no way to bypass the on-board EQ.

I mostly dislike how my P loses that midrange-y grit.

Too late for a PDDI, I'm way past the 14-days return policy. :p
Click to expand...

It seems that if you like the sound of the pedal for recording and I'm assuming that you are going direct there is obviously some type of EQ curve in the Markbass that is not quite meshing with the Bass Driver. You can also just try adding some mids from the Markbass.

My suggestion is to try this. Set up the Bass Driver into your amp and make sure its at unity gain. This means the volume of the pedal when engaged is the same basic volume of your bass plugged in directly. Set the treble and bass controls at noon or flat, turn off the presence control and start with the drive at around 9 o'clock. Turn the blend control to about 12 o'clock and adjust the level control to match the volume of the pedal in bypass. Try adding some bass on the Bass Driver. Try 1 o'clock. Add some drive. Always remember that each time you adjust, you may need to compensate with the level control to match the volume in bypass.

I just tried this myself with our P Bass and went into both the front end of our little Trademark 30 guitar amp set clean as well as through the effects return. I was easily able to get a full tone that sounded fatter than when the pedal was bypassed. This was into an open back guitar amp with a low wattage 10" speaker.
 
#19
I wish Tech21 made the ParaDriver with the presence knob, or the BDDI wih mid control. Any way, I love my PBDDI, use it as a pre, into a poweramp. If I want more gain or a bit more mids I use my Bad Monkey in front of it, as a Tube Screamer clone it has this mid hump. I also have the Oxford pedal which I fell miss some lows and is quite mid heavy.
 
#20
My VT Bass Deluxe has become an indispensable part of my large gig live rig (I do not use it for the acoustic trio). Then again, it has 6 presets and a dedicated mid control. I merely tweaked each preset to my taste, and saved the patches. My needs differ from those of others, as they have been stated, within this thread. Ultimately, it is still up to each individual to determine what their needs may be, and how to best meet them.
 

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