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Double Bass Sarno Black Box Tube Life

neddyrow

neddyrow

www.simmerinstew.com
Apr 21, 2011
2,309
3,136
Cortland, NY
#1
I was one of the first round of purchasers of the Sarno Black Box with the Vari-Z knob a few years back. I love the unit and use it for most gigs. It seems to have lost its tube warmth and the mellowing of the piezo seems to be fading. I am curious as if any of you have changed the tube since you have bought yours. I have a Groove Tubes tube that would work but I'm not sure if the issue is with the black box or something else in my signal chain..

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
#3
I haven't changed the tube in my Black Box, but I agree that a noticeable change in the way it sounds could mean a tube replacement.

The pedal steel guitar community has discussed Black Box tubes a lot. See....
Topic: Black Box Tube ?
Topic: Sarno Black Box Tube switch
Topic: What brand of 12AX7 is good for Sarno Black Box.

Have you contacted Brad Sarno to ask for his thoughts? He tends to be very responsive to requests for info. For instance, he chimed in to give his feedback on all of the forum discussions listed above.
 
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#5
Call me crazy, but the first thing I do with a new piece of tube gear is run a few different tubes to see what I like...Tubes are little microphones after all...I went all the way with my BB and bought a vintage NOS RCA 12AX7 for an ungodly amount of money. Sounds great and is very constant. But in trying various tubes lately in my Sarno V8, I can tell you that there is a lot of variation and tubes go bad (and tubes can have tinnitus too...ringing sounds that are way distracting and bad) But getting a really good old American or British tube feels like treasure...and they last way longer too...
I bought a whole bunch of tubes from a local dealer recently...all octal tubes for the V8, all old american but not NOS...and I am mostly disappointed, many have bad ringing or like you are getting some weird attenuations....It generally pays to get a really good one...especially in a BB where there IS only one.
 
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#6
flatback said:
But getting a really good old American or British tube feels like treasure...and they last way longer too...I bought a whole bunch of tubes from a local dealer recently...all octal tubes for the V8, all old american but not NOS...and I am mostly disappointed, many have bad ringing or like you are getting some weird attenuations....It generally pays to get a really good one...especially in a BB where there IS only one.
Click to expand...

Hight Quality Octal Preamp Tubes i.e 6SL7's are not easy to source and when you find NOS they cost a fortune. You could easily spend $249-$598 for a pair of RCA 5691's or 5692's.
Tung Sol makes a very respectable new 6SL7 based on the RCA. Just my take. I found a matched set of Sylvania 6SL7's for my B-15N they were in great shape and the cost
was reasonable. Just my take The 12AX7 tube that Brad installs in his Black Box should last a long time.
 
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#7
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Subbed. Back in the day, it was easy to test tubes to see if there were issues. These days, not so much!
Click to expand...

I fondly remember going to the Hooks Drugstore in my hometown or the Hardware Store here in St. Louis and using the Tube Tester they had in the back of the store with
drawers of tubes underneath that were for sale as replacements. Unfortunately, some of the noble gasses used in tubes are quite toxic.
 
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#8
Small signal tubes are generally expected to last for years, if not decades. However, any tube can fail randomly at any time. I would try a new tube.

AFAIK the Black Box uses a 12AX7. On a different forum, Brad Sarno recommended avoiding tubes with spiral wound filaments. This is because the tube is run with relatively high voltage on the cathode, which can result in arcing between the cathode and heater.

Ref: What brand of 12AX7 is good for Sarno Black Box. : The Steel Guitar Forum

My understanding is many recent New Sensor designs use spiral wound filaments, which is supposed to reduce hum. However, these tubes may not meet the cathode to heater voltage spec for the tube type, and may fail fairly quickly if used in a circuit that places very much voltage on the cathode.

Effected brands may include current production Tung Sol, Electro Harmonix, Mullard, Genalex, Svetlana, Sovtek.

I believe common Chinese do not have this problem. Probably not a problem for NOS or ANOS tubes either.

Some of my favorite 12AX7 types have this problem. I have tried to avoid placing various New Sensor tubes in circuits where it could be a problem. I just found out the JJ uses spiral wound filaments. So I guess now I have to consider potential problems with JJs as well :banghead:.
 
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