Scales scales scales

[Williethump]

This is about where I am. I can play 12-bar using major, minor, major & minor pentatonic, & blues scales.
But I know no modes, usually don't know what note I'm playing, usually know only one fingering. Lately I'm trying Luke's Become a Bassist improved pentatonic practice fingering and scales.
Five different finger patterns of pentatonic scales played up and down the neck. Here's his YouTube video.

I'm trying to learn these 5 ways to play pentatonic, upgrade my practice and noodling. He plays improv blues going from one pattern to the next up and down the neck, pretty nice. You might want to try it. Good luck.

 

[faulknersj]

For me this is simple.

There are only 5 scales/modes I really need:

From Major Perspective Using Number System:

1 = Major
2 = Dorian
3 = Lydian
4 = Mixolydian
5 = Minor

From Minor Perspective Using Number System:

1 = Minor
3 = Major
4 = Dorian
6 = Lydian
7 = Mixolydian

I don’t care about the other 2 modes lol and yes…I think of them as major and minor, not Ionian and aeolian…

Cheers!

 

[fearceol]

before you go too far down the road of obscure scales:
can you harmonize a major scale?

understanding chords and chord progressions is more useful than understanding lots of scales

+100.

Chord Tones Are Primary | StudyBass.

 

[SteveCS]

...
Figured I'd ask, what scales do you guys find attractive/fun to just groove in?

before you go too far down the road of obscure scales:
can you harmonize a major scale?

understanding chords and chord progressions is more useful than understanding lots of scales
...

Unless you are setting out to be just a soloist, key harmonisation, chord structures and functional harmony are far more important and useful to the bass player than just scales in isolation. As such, I would start by looking at post #8 from @noeinstein then focus on arpeggios rather than scales. And maybe, even if you don't play jazz, dip your toe into the universe of walking bass - just be careful not to get pulled under!!

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/scales-scales-scales.1649079/#post-28400147

There are plenty of other threads on the subject and many of them actually contain helpful and accurate information!!

 

[logdrum]

IamGroot @IamGroot knows scales. Here is scale compute table in excel

https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/scale-computer-rev-2-iamgroot-xlsx.4450804/

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/scale-computer-de-groot.1536388/

He has a post where he had maybe 100+ scales. Hope he posts here.

 

[stringthrough]

The Major scale, two of its modes (Dorian and Mixolydian) and the half step/ whole step Diminished scale is 99.99% of what I use.

Major scale for Major chords, i.e. CMaj7
Dorian scale for Minor chords, i.e. Dmin
Mixolydian scale for Dominant chords, i.e. G7
Diminished scale for altered Dominant chords, i.e. G7b9

If more is needed use your ear.

 

[eddododo]

Give me some scales!

You guys may have seen from some other of my post I never really bothered learning the notes on the neck. I made it 30 years without knowing that info. It kinda like not learning to read, but still being able to speak.

Now that I have, I've been playing with scales a bit. I'll work out the scales for every song I play, just so I know, but also have been playing with the scales themselves as well.

It's interesting to see how much I abuse certian scales when just playing. It's also kind of sad how little of cetian scales I've been using. Basically anything I deemed uncomfortable just didn't get used. Frequently jumping back and forth between 4 frets is a good example. I can do it, it's just not the path of least resistance, so it rarely gets done when noodling.

But now that I can see how things fit together, I find myself wanting and intentionally playing in less comfortable positions.
Some scales just sound so good. You almost don't even need to try. I really wished I had learned this stuff a long time ago. It's refreshing to have so many options.

Figured I'd ask, what scales do you guys find attractive/fun to just groove in? Any weird scales out there I should be looking out for?

So when someone says ‘scales’ I immediately try to sus out what they mean by that. Does it mean a) running the scales up and down in order or b) do they just mean ‘playing within X key’

In both cases, it’s something to learn so that you never have to think about it again- it’s really about connecting muscle memory to your mental map of the notes, such that a) you don’t have to put in mental effort to navigate the fretboard and b) such that you can start to develop a more sophisticated mental map, built on top of the foundation you’ve developed.

I’m never thinking about ‘playing scales,’ for me it’s either work I’ve done, like learning the alphabet or learning to walk, or else it And theory more broadly are really tools for shorthand communication… IE ‘oh yeah, like that Dorian part?’ or ‘so yeah it dips into F# for the bridge’ that kind of stuff.

 

[bassdude51]

Figured I'd ask, what scales do you guys find attractive/fun to just groove in?

Speaking for myself, I like to mess around with the Major, Minor and Blues scale.

A long time ago (1983) when I was "young and dumb", (now I'm old and dumb) I took official bass lessons from a music teacher who was an instructor at Capital University here in Columbus, Ohio. One time he asked me this question.........."how many notes are there?" Being musically illiterate, I told him that I didn't know, perhaps hundreds. He answered me back, "twelve". "There are only 12 notes."

Anyway, perhaps music is not as complex as we might at first think.......and noodling around is noodling with 12 notes.

 

[groooooove]

i really disagree with the "learn all the scales" stuff until a player is pretty competent- playing over jazz changes specifically.

for my students, major and minor scales in a few different fingering options are a more practical path. i'll often just use natural minor only, as well. for sure pentatonic gets introduced early.

arpeggios and ear training to hear chord quality is so much more valuable.

working out every iteration of a given major triad i think is time better spent than learning modes.

don't get me wrong - modes are an important topic. but for some reason i think they get introduced too early and too often.

as an educator i'll always start with trying to figure out where someone is at - as accurately as possible. then our job is to determine what is the best "next step" for them - achievable, but meaningful? it's very rarely modes.

again... i teach modes... often... but only when it seems to be time.

 

[brianrost]

It's also kind of sad how little of certain scales I've been using.

Unless you're playing jazz, prog or non-Western music you don’t need to know many scales. You just need to be able to play them in all keys.

I’m trying to remember if I've ever had to use any scales other than these outside of my brief jazz misadventures, adding chromatic approaches here and there.

Major (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Natural Minor (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7)
Melodic Minor (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, maj6, maj7)
Major Pentatonic (1, 2, 3, 5, 6)
Minor Pentatonic/Blues scale (1, b3, 4, 5, b7…add b5 for blues scale)
Dorian mode (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, maj6, b7)

 

[Drop1]

i really disagree with the "learn all the scales" stuff until a player is pretty competent- playing over jazz changes specifically.

for my students, major and minor scales in a few different fingering options are a more practical path. i'll often just use natural minor only, as well. for sure pentatonic gets introduced early.

arpeggios and ear training to hear chord quality is so much more valuable.

working out every iteration of a given major triad i think is time better spent than learning modes.

don't get me wrong - modes are an important topic. but for some reason i think they get introduced too early and too often.

as an educator i'll always start with trying to figure out where someone is at - as accurately as possible. then our job is to determine what is the best "next step" for them - achievable, but meaningful? it's very rarely modes.

again... i teach modes... often... but only when it seems to be time.

I'm at a point in my life where I "want" to learn this stuff. I should have explained more in my original post.
My bass career is over. Unless I decide to go back into the studio, it's done. Playing out is 100% over for me. I've sold off everything but one bass and one practice amp. I thought I was done with bass altogether, but after a few years I was glad to have kept a bass around. I think i just got burnt out.

So I'm kinda going backwards here. My question wasn't really about trying to learn a bunch of scales. I was just curious what scales other players gravitate towards if given the choice. I know a lot of people bang away in minor pentatonics because they are easy to play. I personally like the minor blues scale for its sound. It's a scale I have played very often in songs without even knowing it. And thats what led to my question. See, the minor blues scale is not a scale I'd naturally play in when just siting around noodling. I'd probably use a major or one of the pentatonics. That's what my hands naturally want to play in if I'm not actually playing a song. Now, knowing the name of the scale, I am aware of it and how it differs from what I'd usually do and can make a conscious decision to noodle in that specifc scale due to its sound.
That's all I was asking. Was just curious what scales other players like the sound of.

And I kinda disagree with waiting to "learn all the scales". I wish I had learned this stuff at least 20 years ago, if not from the very start. We just didn't have the resources back then. I've missed several opportunities to play in jam bands due to just not knowing basic stuff like this. I can play almost anything you put in front of me (within reason) if given a few hours to rehearse it, but if you call a note out to me, I'm dead in the water. (For now)
If someone is serious about playing , I'd highly recommend they learn this stuff along side whatever else they play. It's definitely not "needed", I know that all too well, but it is super useful, especially for session work. I know it beats the crap outta having my guitar player give me chords progressions in tab form. It worked, but it wasn't exactly ideal.

 

[groooooove]

If someone is serious about playing , I'd highly recommend they learn this stuff along side whatever else they play. It's definitely not "needed", I know that all too well, but it is super useful, especially for session work.

i think serious study benefits all music-making.

 

[DrayMiles]

Pac man is a game centered on patterns and discipline. So are scales when applied to our instrument.

You obviously don’t understand what I’m implying. It’s amusing that some of you contemplate this stuff, but your application is robotic. Nobody thinks of this stuff in the middle of a job. It’s too late by then. It has to be internalized and then you hear it before you play it without analyzing it. I’m not bashing the search and discovery of knowledge and application, but care is essential that you recognize you’re paid to hear fast… Not play fast.

 

[Phaidrus]

It has to be internalized and then you hear it before you play it without analyzing it.

One of my goals in life.

 

[micguy]

You obviously don’t understand what I’m implying.

You perhaps missed the fact that I'm having a bit of fun with a joke. Pac man (the video game) is a game that people play - the ones that can play it for a very long time have internalized patterns through discipline, to where they aren't thinking - they are just doing. The point is that the practice removes the thinking from the playing.

Our instrument is full of patterns that, while you hopefully don't have to think about it while playing, you have internalized where a major fifth is (in your hands and in your ears) through discipline - doing all that, when you play you aren't thinking - you just hear where the next note is, and your hands go there.

I didn't "miss" your point, I'm echoing it.

I will say that you talk about internalizing something, and then playing it without thinking about it - and that appreas to be a good thing to you. In the previous sentence you criticize the concept of being "robotic". Having something internally programmed to where you do it without thinking is pretty much the definition of robotic. How is this not a contradiction to you?

 

[Phaidrus]

I will say that you talk about internalizing something, and then playing it without thinking about it - and that appreas to be a good thing to you. In the previous sentence you criticize the concept of being "robotic". Having something internally programmed to where you do it without thinking is pretty much the definition of robotic.

Philosophers have grappled with the notion of free will - whether it exists at all, and if so, under what circumstances - since the beginning of philosophy.

But regardless of what any school of thought may have to say about it, I'd like to reach a point where I can play with robotic ease my note of choice. Sounds like an impossibility but isn't this what accomplished players do?

Sadly, I'm far from that.

 

[mambo4]

Having something internally programmed to where you do it without thinking is pretty much the definition of robotic.

Unless you consider playing without thinking as playing intuitively, as opposed to robotically

Playing with thinking:
Okay this is blues in F and I'm on bar 2 so we're going to the IV and that's Bb7 and I could play 1 3 5 7 or maybe Bb mixolydian or maybe that phrase I once heard Willi Dixon use...what note am I on? maybe I can use a chromatic approach up to Bb...or is the 3rd closer to where I am coming from than the root?

Playing without thinking:
Bumpa dumba doo doo doo doo Bumpa dumba bomp bomp...

to me it doesn't mean automated ignorance of what your playing
it means not obstructing yourself with process, thought or emotion
getting yourself out of the way of the music
It's the martial arts concept of "no-mind" or mushin, applied to the act of making music

 

[micguy]

I'd like to reach a point where I can play with robotic ease my note of choice. Sounds like an impossibility but isn't this what accomplished players do?

I guess by your definition I'm "accomplished". I like the term "robotic ease" - the goal is never to actually be robotic - playing without emotion is something you don't ever want to do. The point of the thousands of hours of practice is to have certain things - chord structures, technique, etc. all baked in to where the program running in your head is not "where am I in the arrangement" of "I hope I get through the part that coming up that's tough". Music is a communication between the band and the audience - when you have certain things baked in, you can concentrate on observing the audience and your fellow players, noticing what they are reacting to, and how they are reacting, so you can tailor what you are doing for maximum effectiveness in both playing as a team, and getting the thing across to the audience.

Long story short - getting to the point of "robotic ease" is something you do so you can actually play less robotically - the fundamentals are covered so it can be more art, less worrying about making mistakes.

 

[Drop1]

Yall are having an interesting conversation. It's my thread so I'm gonna inject myself into it lol.

Are there people out there that really think in terms of theory while playing ? That would be annoying to me. Oh, I gotta play 16th notes here with an xyz chord progression in such and such scale. No , my brain doesn't work that way. I wouldn't want it to unless I was transcribing , which I'm not.
What learning this stuff "is" doing for me is letting me get the noise out of my head and on to the instrument easier. It's also showing me ways things can be done that I haven't seen/thought of before, which then leads to more head noise that needs to be gotten out.
I do make time to think in theory, but that's what im practicing at the moment. I set time aside to be conscious of exactly what I'm doing, because that seems to help make it all stick. But once it's stuck, I dont have to think that way anymore. I can just "play" from there.

 

[Williethump]

People want different things from playing bass. Get good enough after the proverbial 10k hours of practice, study, application, technique, +inborn musical talent, which equals mastery of the art.
Or as close as humans can get. If you're in that tiny percentage, and lucky, you can get riches beyond the dreams of avarice. For playing bass! But then it won't be your joy anymore. It will be your job.
OTOH you can be an elderly duffer in a decrepit old house surrounded by superb instruments and melodious amplifiers. But with serious challenges to ever being chosen as the new bassist for the Sex Pistols.
There is no chance anyone would pay me to play, but I need to play every day. For the joy. For the expression. For the therapy. I have and need lots of therapies and music is tops for the psyche.
All my textbooks stress being a well rounded player, knowing your roll and fitting into the band. I have to laugh, its just me and Roland Cube, my drummer. I gotta play the bass and the melody part too! Nobody else in my living/music room.
I'm far too old to be a well rounded player, learn to use a pick, play 1/16th notes for more than 1.25 minutes.
I don't have time for much arcane theory when instead I can learn another finger box pattern.
I know you pros are right about using chords instead of scales. I know it marks me as a forever noob and a rube to not be able to sight read, grok circle-of-fifths, know modes, or dig much jazz.
Yes, living in today's complix world of the future is a little like having bee's live in your head. But, there it is.
I'm too old and decrepit from arthritis, neuropathy, tendinitis and hammer-toe to do anything except have fun as long as I can.
When you play within a scale and use I-IV-V (what I like anyhow- see above, old), it all sounds like a song! I'd a heap rather play pretty stuff today than prepare myself for bass musical greatness in some future. So give me scales, scales, scales.