Scales

[IamGroot]

There is a flood of well prepared info on elementary music theory available for free on the internet.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

There is a flood of well prepared info on elementary music theory available for free on the internet.

I've been looking around and listening (YouTube). Trying to educate myself. It's confusing at times for me but I need to understand that that's all part of learning. I love music so much that I won't let a sprinkle of discouragement defeat my will to learn. It's tough, not going to kid ya. But there's no timetable. If it takes me 10 times longer to "get it" than most people, I need to be ok with that... and I am.

 

[Darth_Linux]

You might consider Jeff Berlin's method if you have the budget for it. He has a package for beginners at this link: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Kipp Harrington]

You might consider Jeff Berlin's method if you have the budget for it. He has a package for beginners at this link: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Thanks for the tip. I think I'll just take it at my own pace. Not in a big hurry. But I'm sure it will be a worthwhile journey, no matter how much time it takes.

Having the gumption to actually want to take the time to educate myself was the first step. I did that. Now I'm going to learn it on my watch. I'm still going to spend time learning Classic Rock and blues tunes (by ear). But I'll also make time to try and become a better musician through actually learning the language.

 

[DJ Bebop]

You might consider Jeff Berlin's method if you have the budget for it. He has a package for beginners at this link: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I think he should ease into Jeff. He can be a big bite.

 

[lowplaces]

I don't read standard notation... is this book available in TAB format? Thanks!

Each example has both standard notation and tab.

 

[IamGroot]

You might

Keeping it simple.

The simplest chord is 3 notes, a triad.

It comes in 3 flavors:
Major, 1 3 5 , i.e C E G
Minor, 1 b3 5, C Eb G
Diminished, 1 b3 , b5 C Eb, Gb

Each of these flavors has two fingerings, compact and extended.
Major, start on middle finger (compact) or index finger (extended)
Minor, Index (compact or middle (extended)
Dim: index or middle

Sorry I missed mentioning the Aug triad.

If you are new to triads, I recommend just focussing on the compact fingering meaning start major triads on the middle finger and the minor and dim on the index finger. Aug scale will be later.

A good exercise is to play the triads corresponding to the notes in the major scale on only two strings going up or down the neck. This will develop your ear and skill to move around the neck. Its also a path to learning all the modes associated with a parent scale.

For example, the G major scale is G a b C D e f#" G.

G C and D are major triads(1st, 4th and 5th degrees of major scale),

a, b, e are minor triads....2nd, 3rd, and 6th degrees of major scales

f#' is a diminished triad. 7th degree.


So ascending the neck on the E and A string, you play

G B D
a c e
b d f#
C E G
D F# A
e g b
f# a c
G B D

Practice this slowly going up the neck.
Concentrate on where the root note is and say the degree of the root note. If its 1 4 or 5, use the major fingering pattern starting on the middle finger. 2, 3 6 use the minor, for 7 use the dim.

When you can go up the neck comfortably, when you get to the top, go back down. It may take weeks for this to become second nature. Get it right as this is a key to scale playing .

After you can do the above, practice going up on the first degree, down on the 2nd, up on the 3rd , down on the 4th.etc

Best wishes from my phone
More later if any interest.

 

[SteveCS]

There is a flood of well prepared info on elementary music theory available for free on the internet.

The problem is that for every good example there are hundreds of examples ranging from poor to total 8ull$h17, including plenty of threads on this site. You or I might be able to confidently sort the wheat from the chaff, but that's not the case for people with less knowledge or experience.

 

[Doc Blue]

Kipp, how well do you know major triad fingering patterns? Most major triads can be played with common fingering as you may have already discovered. Locate the root, then the 3rd and 5th are automatic. Same with minor triads. I know you already have the ear for this.

Where's Malcom Amos? I'm away from my pc and don't have the means to paste examples. Common fingering seems to be a natural follow-on at this point.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

……. Where's Malcom Amos? I'm away from my pc and don't have the means to paste examples. Common fingering seems to be a natural follow-on at this point.

I think the following is what you want to see. Eat this monster a little bit at a time, just enough to satisfy your hunger, but, not so much all at once that it makes you sick. Copy this and hang it on the wall so you can see it when needed.

My old standby chart of generic bass lines using the major scale box as a Rosetta stone. I've put the fretboard, with notes, below - using the major scale box pattern place the Root or Tonic note on the fretboard then play the spelling for what you want.

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box.
G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
You may recognize this pattern with dots.
Adding the numbers lets the pattern come alive.
As this box can be used for chords and scales I have used the "R" for the root note of the chord, and it was pointed
out that if used for a scale the R should be a T for the tonic note of the scale. I'm not going to go back and change all the R's with a T. Just understand if using the box for scale work "play like" it's a T.

Cmaj7 chord coming up in the song. Find a C note on the 3rd or 4th string and put this box's R over that C note. Then play the "spelling" for the Cmaj7 chord. That spelling is listed below and it is R-3-5-7. If you wanted to play the C major scale, that spelling is R-2-3-4-5-6-7.

Basic Chord Spellings

• Major Triad = R-3-5 for the C chord.
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5 for the Cm chord.
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5 for the Cdim chord.

7th Chord Spellings

• Maj7 = R-3-5-7 for the Cmaj7 chord.
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7 for the Cm7 chord.
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7 for the C7 chord.
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7 for the Cm7b5 chord.
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7 for the C with the little o - no strike through.

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.

Scale Spellings Yep, gotta do our scales so our fingers know where the notes are and our ears get used to the good and bad sounds. Scales are a right of passage thing. Got to know them, however, chord tones are what we get paid to play.

• Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Home base
• Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 Leave out the 4 & 7
• Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
• Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Leave out the 2 & 6.
• Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the blue note b5 added.
• Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor with a natural 7.
• Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3.

Let the major scale be your home base then change a few notes and you have something different. No need to memorize a zillion patterns. Let the major scale pattern be your go to pattern - then adapt/adjust from there.

Generic Notes - for your bass line.

• The root, five and eight are generic (R-5-8-5) and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5.
• The 3 is generic to all major chords. So R-3-5-3 will fit under any major chord.
• The b3 is generic to all minor chords. And R-b3-5-8 will fit under any minor chord. Why the 8? Well the 8 is just another root in the next octave.
• The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. Yep, R-3-5-7 fits nicely.
• The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. G7 = R-3-5-b7 or Gm7 = R-b3-5-b7.
• The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6's. Love the sound of R-3-5-6 with a major chord.
• The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don't linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
• In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
• Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 & 7 will play a lot of bass.

Yep, that is a lot to learn, but, it really is not. If major the 3 will be a natural 3. If minor the 3 will be flatted. Once taken to minor the 6 & 7 are also flatted. So you want.....
a Major chord R-3-5 is all you have to remember. If minor R-b3-5 will be needed.

Happy trails.

 

[Sav'nBass]

Also consider some of the links in my sig below. They all helped me at some point or other to a greater or lesser degree. Learn bass guitar is good for the basics and it goes in steps. Scott's is good too.

 

[Doc Blue]

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Happy trails.

Thanks Malcom. This is the section I was thinking about. Major triad in bold with middle finger for R, index for 3, pinky for 5.

 

[SteveCS]

Yesterday afternoon I thought Kipp had been saved from flailing around in the sea and was safely navigating the shallow waters. Do we really want to throw him back into the estuary with a nice pair of concrete boots? (If you don't get the analogy, check out the 'how important are scales' thread.)

Thanks for the tip. I think I'll just take it at my own pace. Not in a big hurry. But I'm sure it will be a worthwhile journey, no matter how much time it takes.

Having the gumption to actually want to take the time to educate myself was the first step. I did that. Now I'm going to learn it on my watch. I'm still going to spend time learning Classic Rock and blues tunes (by ear). But I'll also make time to try and become a better musician through actually learning the language.

Indeed. Just beware false prophets. Anything that claims to be all you need to know in one page of text is probably best printed and used in the bathroom.

 

[Doc Blue]

Just thought showing universal major triad fingering might be useful. If not, apologies and please ignore.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Never ending lameness - are scales important.
Just a question for fingering specialists.
Are scale notes, let's say, on the piano directly linked to the bass guitar fingering?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Yesterday afternoon I thought Kipp had been saved from flailing around in the sea and was safely navigating the shallow waters. Do we really want to throw him back into the estuary with a nice pair of concrete boots? (If you don't get the analogy, check out the 'how important are scales' thread.)



Indeed. Just beware false prophets. Anything that claims to be all you need to know in one page of text is probably best printed and used in the bathroom.

Eventually, Steve has decided that wasting time on helping those who don't want to be helped is the best way to use his precious time.
Congratulations!
My respect.

 

[SteveCS]

Just thought showing universal major triad fingering might be useful. If not, apologies and please ignore.

They are useful, but it's too early. Used alone, this type of information encourages the skipping or bypassing of learning, leaving great holes in the understanding. If a student is only given music facts and left to discover bass-specific stuff like patterns for themsleves, by the time they make those discoveries the music facts have a fighting chance of being learned. Going straight in with patterns, boxes etc with someone who has no musical knowledge to lean on is a kick into the deep end. Malcolm has some musical knowledge; Kipp, by his own admission, does not (yet), but those materials, presented with all good intent and without malice, assume he does... I expect Kipp already knows the patterns. The biggest problem we face here is that he doesn't know what they mean...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

They are useful, but it's too early. Used alone, this type of information encourages the skipping or bypassing of learning, leaving great holes in the understanding. If a student is only given music facts and left to discover bass-specific stuff like patterns for themsleves, by the time they make those discoveries the music facts have a fighting chance of being learned. Going straight in with patterns, boxes etc with someone who has no musical knowledge to lean on is a kick into the deep end. Malcolm has some musical knowledge; Kipp, by his own admission, does not (yet), but those materials, presented with all good intent and without malice, assume he does... I expect Kipp already knows the patterns. The biggest problem we face here is that he doesn't know what they mean...

Can I use "boxes" while learning scales on the piano?

 

[IamGroot]

Can I use "boxes" while learning scales on the piano?

Yes, but padded benches are more comfortable to sit on.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Can I use "boxes" while learning scales on the piano?

Well on the piano it is all on a straight line; not in a box pattern, however, the spelling for what you need would be helpful.

C major scale is all white keys.
On the G major scale you have to flat the seven with a black key. You will need to know which sharps and flats will be in the scale you need to play. Normally we do not mix sharps and flats together, so it's not rocket science, but on piano you will have to know when to sharp and when to flat - depending on which scale you will be using.

Standard notation, in the key signature tells you how many sharps or flats this key will use, however, takes for granted you know which note to sharp or flat. Different set of "rules" and with piano, IMO, we step off into "real theory", it's complicated....