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Scaring Guitarist Into Learning New Stuff

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by invisiman, Jul 26, 2004.

  1. invisiman


    Feb 22, 2004
    I really don't know where to begin here, so I'll just give you all the rundown, and ask for opinions/better ideas/sugggestions/etc.

    The guitarist in my band is EXTREMELY close minded, as in, all he plays(give or take one or two songs) is Led Zeppelin. Nothing else, just Led Zeppelin. Now, I'm not dissing their music or anything here, but I mean, come on, Led Zeppelin is good and all, but limiting youself just to that? We've told him there's other stuff he should learn to play numerous times, but he never seems to get it.

    But anyways, fast forward to tonight. Me and my drummer are talking, and he suggests that we invite a real good meta guitarist over to jam, and then invite our current guitarist over. And when he asks why we have the other guy over, we're planning on telling him that either he learns some different stuff, or we divide our time between two bands.

    Now, I'm not really a fan of this idea, but I'm a fan of what works, so I am asking you guys, is this a reasonable thing to do? Or should we try something else?
  2. birdsg


    Dec 18, 2003
    Birmingham England
    Personally I would have a chat with hime BEFORE you invite another guitarist over and tell him you are all unhappy and unless he can change then you will be forced to look elsewhere - Put yourself in his shoes he will feel pretty let down being humiliated in front of the new guitarist. Also how will new guitarist feel being 'used' to get a reaction out of present guitarist.

    I dont know the whole situation so may be completely wrong of course. :)

  3. If you're set on 'scaring' him into anything, you could probably get an undead former forum member (the only undead person anyone I know of people having contact with :eyebrow: ). Nothing puts the fear of God in me like an undead brain eating zombie.

    But "the talk" is important, and make sure he knows you're serious. It's not a 'suggestion.' No pussyfootin' around, be clear. If he doesn't heed "the talk" you could get Sean Connery to say "The games are afoot!" :p

    PS A good session of "the talk" is the only way to really do it to avoid being a buddy f***er. I got into a somewhat similar situation and I held a grudge for well over 8-9 years.
  4. Here's my post from the "Hello Goodbye...band" thread:
  5. lamarjones

    lamarjones Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    Come straight out and say it is not working. Either he does the work (lets face it, these problems are usually cause peeps don't want to work), or you need a new act. Period.
  6. Slater

    Slater Leave that thing alone. Supporting Member

    Apr 17, 2000
    The Great Lakes State
    I don't get it :confused: ... ...If the only thing your guitar player plays is Led Zeppelin, then are you a 'Zeppelin tribute band? If not, then you can "scare" him by telling him that all the other members of the band want to do some new material, and he needs to get with it, or take a hike!...
  7. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    Setting up a situation where you ambush a band member with an uncomfortable situation to get him to agree to your ultimatum is backhanded, spiteful, and manipulative. If I were the real good metal guitarist who came to your rehearsal and witnessed this plot go down, I wouldn't join the band. Why? Because if you can't communicate with your current bandmember, who's to think you aren't gonna pull some kind of BS manuever like this on me if we disagree.

    Why do you need to play these kinds of games? Can't you just talk to the guy face to face about the issue? If nothing works out, can't you agree to disagree and move on? If all of you wind up in a better situation, why would anyone be pissed?

    You and your drummer need to be men and talk to this guy man-to-man. It's better to deal with confrontation where people might get pissed, rather than use manipulative games where people WILL get pissed and respect and friendship are thrown out the window.
  8. invisiman


    Feb 22, 2004
    We'd like not to be a Led Zeppelin Tribute band, if that makes sense. Currently our "set list"(we just sort of jam) is straight up Led Zeppelin with one or two originals. Me and my drummer like Led Zeppelin and all, but playing the same 10 songs every jam session really gets to us, especially when our musical interests lie elsewhere.

    Sometimes I just think our guitarist doesn't realize he has to make compromises too if he expects our band to work well together in the long run. We also have our apprehensions about ousting him, as he is one of the best guitarists in out age group, and we knoow it would be amazingly hard to find a replacement for him in a town of 35,000.
  9. invisiman


    Feb 22, 2004

    Like I said, I'm not a fan of this idea, and your post makes me look at the big picture. We're not trying to shoot a friendship, we're trying to get an equal say in the band.. Me and my drummer are just a little fed up that our guitarist hasn't been responding to our requests, and this was what we came up with. I now realize it's not a good idea at all, and I'll try to talk to him man-to-man about this.
  10. RicPlaya


    Apr 22, 2003
    Whitmoretucky MI
    Just say Zepplin's cool and everything but we want to broaden our musical horizons. Can you learn some different stuff? If not I want to play with some other people that are more diverse, not saying I want to stop this project but if all we are going to do is Zepp I am going to play in another band too. Be honest.... maybe he will take it seriously.
  11. invisiman


    Feb 22, 2004
    We plan on talking to him tonight, if all goes as planned, and I suspect the basic rundown of what we're gonna say is what RicPlaya posted. I hope everything works out for the best, and no one gets their toes stepped on. Any last minute advice from anyone? If not, wish me luck, and I'll try to remember to post the results later on.
  12. invisiman


    Feb 22, 2004
    I just got back from my drummers house. Not very happy either.

    Basically, we just told him, he either agrees to learn some other stuff with the band, including stuff we want to play, or else we're starting another band as a sideproject. He seemed pretty unfazed by this, and told us we should learn Freebird, and that we shouldn't bother learning anything else, and focus on our originals and Led Zeppelin tunes. His reason for that was "Jimmy Page is the third most influential guitarist ever." Now, I don't know whether or not there is truth in that, but HOLY CRAP!!!

    Um..I'm gonna stop typing now, and chillax for a bit, as I'm still a bit frustrated, and I'm ranting. So I'm gonna come back and pick up where I left off later. Feel free to ask questions and make somemore suggestions, as I just need to cool off a bit.

    Thanks for guiding me through this thus far guys! :bassist:
  13. lamarjones

    lamarjones Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    Find a name for the side project.
  14. Heck, if you have the spare time, just start the side project. There's no reason you can't be in two bands at once. Of course, it would be nice if you could just move in the direction you'd like, but if he won't budge, you shouldn't hesitate to play the music you want to play.
  15. invisiman


    Feb 22, 2004
    I'm back now, I'm not sure whether my thoughts are gathered yet, but that's never seemed to stop me before.

    I think my plan of action now is, double check with our thick headed guitarist, and see if something struck a nerve with him, maybe allowing him to rethink his approach.

    If he says no again, then I'll start planning with my drummer, and put an ad for a heavy metal guitarist.

    But, as I'm speaking to my drummer right now, he says he will make our intentions very clear to out guitarist. So, I'm hoping here, I really am.

    But it's taken me half hour to write this post, so I'll just submit it, and anything I missed to it in the morning.

    Once again, thanks for the guiding lights you guys :bassist:
  16. wulf


    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    This is where you need to check out Clatter - awesome music from a band consisting of bass and drums. Furthermore, the bassist, Amy, is active on these boards (as "tosya") so you can probably get some expert advice.

    Forget searching out another guitarist; try forming a bass and drums side project and see where it takes you.

  17. Juneau


    Jul 15, 2004
    Dallas, TX.
    Man I swear you were talking about our first guitarist there, I sent the text to my drummer and he asked if I had posted it lol!
  18. mikarre

    mikarre Guest

    This just sounds bizarre. I guess my question is, does this guitarist really seem to you that he looks at this band as a serious undertaking? He may say he does, but does he seem so in his action? Just from reading this thread it seem to me that the answer is a big fat NO. Maybe this guy isn't looking so much for a "band" and just a few guys to jam with.

    Aside from the fact that compromise and communication are so important in any musical project, I just don't see how an all Led Zeppelin set list makes sense on any level...unless you are a tribute band. Even the most thick headed and unreasonable person has to be able to see that more variey is needed in choosing covers if you expect to get anywhere.

    Or, is he looking more at this as an original project? That is the only way I can see him not wanting to bother learning other covers. Maybe he just would rather spend his and the bands time writing. :confused:

    It sounds like he is your only guitarist. Would you consider adding another guitarist to the band? Maybe that would add some variety and keep everyone happy.

    Oh yeah, Jimmy Page rocks, but #3? Hmmm...I just dunno.
  19. invisiman


    Feb 22, 2004
    I talked to him again one on one tonight. He seems to understand our position, but it's hard to say how dedicated he willl be judging from his reaction.

    He said that me and my drummer learned stuff together, he's learn it too, after we're done though. I dunno what to think of that, but I'll definatley try it and see how it goes.

    At any rate, the saga continues. and if things get goin pretty fasy, I'll keep you guys posted. (I'm not one to revive the dead, you see? :p )
  20. ch3ck3rs


    Feb 8, 2004
    i think i used to be in a band with that guy! :D
    i know that "stereotype" guitarist all-too-well, it really is hard to convince them that there is more out there than led zep. good luck. sit him down and tell him like it is. if he doesnt agree, he walks. pretty simple.