Schaller M4S Machine Heads

[gwangi]

Will a set of Schaller M4S machine heads fit on a 1983 Rickenbacker 4001, will they fit thru the holes on the headstock or would they be to big.
There are Grovers on it now and I noticed the Schallers you wouldn't need to drill holes, I'm just curious if these particular machine heads would work or not.

 

[mikeswals]

You do have to have two small holes for the Schallers. The back part of the flat section behind the gear has two pins.

I'm not help in if they'll fit a Ric though....

 

[kulit17]

just in case you needed a visual...the schaller m4s doesn't need screws but they use two pins to anchor them down to prevent them from swivelling. the headstock would need two holes for these pins to go in. see pic attached.

one of the schaller pictured has the pins broken off, doesn't effect tuning or anything but makes the tuning key look physically little off when all the strings wound in an all

if the diameter of the holes are the same on the 83 Ric i'd imagine you be good, but those pins will probably be your archille's heal.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Will a set of Schaller M4S machine heads fit on a 1983 Rickenbacker 4001, will they fit thru the holes on the headstock or would they be to big.
There are Grovers on it now and I noticed the Schallers you wouldn't need to drill holes, I'm just curious if these particular machine heads would work or not.

Which Grovers are on it, currently? Slimlines? Titans?

I put M4S tuners on my former 4005WB decades ago, and I did have to drill out the post holes to fit. This photo shows the Hipshot Ultralites I replaced the Schallers with, same post hole size.

 

[gwangi]

Which Grovers are on it, currently? Slimlines? Titans?

I put M4S tuners on my former 4005WB decades ago, and I did have to drill out the post holes to fit. This photo shows the Hipshot Ultralites I replaced the Schallers with, same post hole size.

I have the original factory set of Grover Slimlines on the bass, I thought Geddy had put Schallers on his 4001 back in the day but I guess they could have been another type of machine head but I swear they look like Schaller M4S tuners.
I know Geddy used to have Grover Slimlines on his 4001 and then changed them to something else.

 

[Jeff Scott]

What is your reason for wanting to change the tuners? If it is just because GL did back then and you want the same look? If so, plan your drilling carefully to avoid having to cut in to the TRC and to ensure the base of the tuners do not extend past the edges of the headstock. Personally, I would not do it unless the Slimlines are not repairable for some reason.

 

[gwangi]

The more info I'm gathering now sounds like drilling would need to be done and there is no way I would do that to this nice bass, my original thoughts where to have another alternative if something did happen to my Grovers and I had remembered that Geddy Lee and put on different machine heads on his 4001 and they looked pretty cool but if he had some drilling done to his 4001 will I'm not willing to do that to my 4001 so I will just stick with the Grovers and wish for the best.
Now I do have a quick question for Jeff Scott, does the Grover Titans have a bigger post and would that also mean drilling out the holes on the headstock of my 4001?

 

[Jeff Scott]

Yes, the Titans are larger posts requiring drilling out the headstock. If your Slimlines are falling apart, there is a couple of things you can do to fix this. The covers are swaged on with 4 pins that are going through holes in the mounting plate. You can easily re-swage these, or alternatively, these can be modified to use small machine screws to hold it all together if desired. More work but more permanent, too. Do a search at the Rick Resource Forum for lots of info on this and, um, resources, of who can do the modding. I have a set that have been modded, on my March '73 4001, and they are really nice now.

If you want to replace the tuners with something different, I'd suggest Hipshot Ultralite tuners with their cloverleaf keys, or the Y keys for something more modern looking, like those on my former July '73 4001, that a friend has, now. They required only a bit of reaming to get the posts to fit. Another possibility is the Hipshot HB_5 tuning keys; their posts should fit with no modifying, but again, check that the tuners won't overhang the headstock.