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Schroeder 1212Light... thoughts?

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Progress Not Perfection.
Sep 2, 2004
12,524
291
Vancouver, BC Canada
#1
Yeah, I know another schroeder thread:smug:

I love my EA wizzys but they end up being close to 65LBS when I stack them together on the dolly. I know 65LBS isnt that much, but I guess I am spoiled. I really dont want to make two trips or break a sweat during load in/out. That significantly diminishes the enjoyment of gigging for me.

My 1212L questions:

1. is it really 42LBS?

I have been burned by weight specs by just about every cab i have bought (all except my ampeg pb-110).

2. Does it sound like a more standard/traditional cab?

Call me crazy but I really prefer the sound of a front firing cab. I had the mini 12L and the mini 12R. I much, much prefered the tone of the mini 12L, largely due to the front firing driver. I am pretty sure the 1212L does have one driver side firing. Just wondering if its a more convential tone or something altogether different.

3. What's the bottom line?
 
#2
VEGANBASS said:
Yeah, I know another schroeder thread:smug:

I love my EA wizzys but they end up being close to 65LBS when I stack them together on the dolly. I know 65LBS isnt that much, but I guess I am spoiled. I really dont want to make two trips or break a sweat during load in/out. That significantly diminishes the enjoyment of gigging for me.

My 1212L questions:

1. is it really 42LBS?

I have been burned by weight specs by just about every cab i have bought (all except my ampeg pb-110).

2. Does it sound like a more standard/traditional cab?
Click to expand...


I have the 1212R so I can't speak to your weight question but I can say that the Schroe isn't what I would call "traditional" sounding. It has a quality to my ear not unlike the old folded horn boxes presumably due to the side firing driver. Not a bad thing at all but it takes some getting used to IMO. The volume from such a small footprint IS amazing though. The 1212R specs at 54lbs but feels lighter than my old Epi T210 which IS the lighter cab (probably due to it's balance and handle location). I'd wager the 1212L is equally copmfortable.
 
#3
There was a huge thread with some interesting back and forth on this cab here:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261914&highlight=1212L

The general consensus. they are a very loud, lightweight small box. But they seem to be very picky about what amps they sound good with. Noboddy who reviewed this particular cab though it was "full range". The weight and size specs seem to be very accurate, unlike the specs on an Aggie DB750.:D
 
#5
VEGANBASS said:
Yeah, I know another schroeder thread:smug:

I love my EA wizzys but they end up being close to 65LBS when I stack them together on the dolly. I know 65LBS isnt that much, but I guess I am spoiled. I really dont want to make two trips or break a sweat during load in/out. That significantly diminishes the enjoyment of gigging for me.

My 1212L questions:

1. is it really 42LBS?

I have been burned by weight specs by just about every cab i have bought (all except my ampeg pb-110).

2. Does it sound like a more standard/traditional cab?

Call me crazy but I really prefer the sound of a front firing cab. I had the mini 12L and the mini 12R. I much, much prefered the tone of the mini 12L, largely due to the front firing driver. I am pretty sure the 1212L does have one driver side firing. Just wondering if its a more convential tone or something altogether different.

3. What's the bottom line?
Click to expand...

Weight..... the 1212L is a little over 40 pounds, as published on the site. My inexact weighing puts mine at about 42-43 pounds.

Sound.... if you thought the front mounted mini112+ sounded good, you will be massively, totally, completely blown away by the 1212L... massively more low end, volume, punch, etc., etc., etc. No comparison. I also think the front mounted mini112 is an improvement over the side mounted one. However, don't let that scare you off on the other Schroeders.... they sound very different and much better all the way around versus the mini112+ IMO.

Bottom Line..... The Medium Schroeder's (as posted a million times) have a unique voicing that some love and others don't like. The 1212L is the smallest, loudest cab that puts out enough bottom to do a pop/funk gig that I've ever played. After hearing it out front played by MatRock, I'm even more impressed.... punchy, tight, articulate and loud. Will it shake the ashtrays on the tables... no.

As Steve (Burk) points out, given the built in voicing of the smaller Schroeders, they sound better with some heads/amps than others (although I find this the case with most gear). I find they sound best with a somewhat 'open' sounding amp like the Walter Woods (and probably the iAmp or GK stuff, although that's just a guess) versus more mid-punchy amps like Ashdown, Eden, etc.). Matt (Matrock) was using a Hartke 3500 and it was the total bomb to my ear.
 
#7
dave_bass5 said:
I have toagree with Ken about the cabs being a bit fussy.
I had a ABM head and it didnt sound all that good with my 1210R. the mids seemed a bit "wooly" but when i got my MarkBass SA450 it seemed to open up a lot more and seems clearer across the whole range.
Could just be my ears though
Click to expand...

+1... even my beloved Thunderfunk is not IMO the best match for that cab versus the Walter Woods (although the TF/21012L sounds REALLY good... but the 21012L is wider and more open sounding than the 1212L). However, the Timbre control can be used to revoice that amp a little more toward the upper mids to clean it up a bit with the 1212L and it sounds pretty cool.

But man.... if you find the right head to work with that little cab, it's really something! Sounds like the Markbass line of heads should be added to the list as 'Schroeder friendly'.
 
#9
Big String said:
So... which Schroder cab sounds the best with a TF550 or DB750 ?? Just curious, I have these two heads but never tried them with Schroeders. I know a lot of Schro users use the R cabs with these heads.
Click to expand...

Can't comment on the DB750, but the 21012L sounds GREAT with the TF550. The 1212L sounds little wooly with the TF to my ear, although you can move the Timbre to the right of flat and it opens up a little. However, the 21012L, which is a little wider sounding, really matches up well with the mid punch of the TF IMO.
 
#10
So basically an amp that leans toward being uncoloured would best suit the 1212L? I am currently borrowing Smash's PJB Bass Buddy and it sounds great, very transparent and uncoloured. Maybe that would sound good with one?

Perhaps thats why I didnt end up keeping my 1210R paired up with the Focus SA & sabddi as pre. Too much colour from the sabddi...
 
#11
knowing the Ea's are very "flat sounding", I feel you may very well be better off with a 1210, 21012, or 410....something with 10's in it. I've been the situation several times where I've had multiple smaller cabs....EA VL110's, 208's, SWR Goliath Jr's, and LDS 2x8's. With the Schroeder lites, a 21012 or 410 are tall enough to put removeable casters on it, so even though either of 'em will be 15 maybe more pounds lighter than your Wizzy's together, you're rolling the Schroe's not carrying them. All the above cabs except for my SWR's were well under 35 pounds each for me, unless you like feeling like Plastic Man taking one of those cabs in each arm isn't that pleasant + you still have to shelpp your head. With the 21012 or 410, you roll it in and out and onto your stage with the head on top, and you're cutting your trips to and from the car and your actualy lifting by 30-60 pounds per ingress egress.

For older farts like me, these cabinets are a godsend even at close to 50 pounds (or less). My current 1210R which weighs mid 50's (I use a rack and roll cart) still is easier to get up onto the stages and move around than 65 pounds of speaker cabs stacked up, let alone if you can put casters on a Medium or Large Schroeder cabinet and bring in your head and speakers in one trip without lifting except over curbs or up/down stairs.

Good luck to ya. I feel from my experience that a 1210, 1212 L or the next step up are what I'd recommend. Headwise, it's a personal preference. My Eden 550 works fine for me. Others may not find it appealing with a Schroe...ears of the beholder.

Larry
 
#12
VEGANBASS said:
So basically an amp that leans toward being uncoloured would best suit the 1212L? I am currently borrowing Smash's PJB Bass Buddy and it sounds great, very transparent and uncoloured. Maybe that would sound good with one?

Perhaps thats why I didnt end up keeping my 1210R paired up with the Focus SA & sabddi as pre. Too much colour from the sabddi...
Click to expand...

I find an amp that is not stongly mid voiced sounds the best. So, Ashdown, Eden, AI Focus and TF to my ear sound a little wooly and mushy with the 1212L (although the TF can work pretty nicely with some EQ). The Walter Woods again sounds great, and I would think the GK and EA heads would sound awesome. IMO as always.
 
#13
Larry Kaye said:
knowing the Ea's are very "flat sounding", I feel you may very well be better off with a 1210, 21012, or 410....something with 10's in it. I've been the situation several times where I've had multiple smaller cabs....EA VL110's, 208's, SWR Goliath Jr's, and LDS 2x8's. With the Schroeder lites, a 21012 or 410 are tall enough to put removeable casters on it, so even though either of 'em will be 15 maybe more pounds lighter than your Wizzy's together, you're rolling the Schroe's not carrying them. All the above cabs except for my SWR's were well under 35 pounds each for me, unless you like feeling like Plastic Man taking one of those cabs in each arm isn't that pleasant + you still have to shelpp your head. With the 21012 or 410, you roll it in and out and onto your stage with the head on top, and you're cutting your trips to and from the car and your actualy lifting by 30-60 pounds per ingress egress.

For older farts like me, these cabinets are a godsend even at close to 50 pounds (or less). My current 1210R which weighs mid 50's (I use a rack and roll cart) still is easier to get up onto the stages and move around than 65 pounds of speaker cabs stacked up, let alone if you can put casters on a Medium or Large Schroeder cabinet and bring in your head and speakers in one trip without lifting except over curbs or up/down stairs.

Good luck to ya. I feel from my experience that a 1210, 1212 L or the next step up are what I'd recommend. Headwise, it's a personal preference. My Eden 550 works fine for me. Others may not find it appealing with a Schroe...ears of the beholder.

Larry
Click to expand...
Interesting points.

However, IMVHO castors are not your friend when dealing with staircases. With a dolly the goin' is slow, but the weight is on the wheels not your back. I guess the best of both worlds would be to have removable castors on your cab and a dolly in your trunk just in case you have to deal with stairs.

I find if there is nothing stacked on top of my two wizzys on the dolly, it is decently manageable. Especially putting them in the car. Its easier to lift two small cabs one at a time than one big one. Of course the 1212L being 42LBS makes that a moot point.

I actually do prefer the sound of 10s but I found the 1210R to not be my cup of tea. Not enough fundamental low-end. That could be for other reasons though. I was using a different pre, plus I just installed DiMarzio Model J pickups. I think the Model Js made a huge difference. I am now hearing the focused, tight, throbbing low-end I have been after.
 
#14
SMASH said:
As I've responded to you before, very recently, my DB750 weighs exactly as spec'd. I've not read of anyone having actually weighed one that claimed otherwise, have you?

Why, without having weighed one yourself, would you cast aspersions on something as important as the weight spec on a very heavy amp, knowing full well that the possibility of another 5 or 10 lbs might be a dealbreaker for some?

You do realize that if it's racked you're adding at least another 10lb, maybe 15? That extra weight is rack, not amp.
Click to expand...

Smash, You can't convince me that an SKB light weight four space rack weighs ten lbs? Although I've always done it with a :D , I'm convinced that Head weighs far more then the listed 47 lbs. I owned one and sold it, It was a GREAT sounding unit with massive headroom and a lot lighter then an SVT. Having said that it was harder to physically "sling around" then my Eden 410 XLT cab! Ken Jung owns a Heart Rock, Glock claims the weight at 40 lbs. If the Glock is 40 the big aggie is at least 55! Their is no way their is 7 lbs difference between those two heads. Unless their is something unique that aggie has done in the weight distribution to make it "feel" MUCH heavier.

I have also moved a couple of Eden VT 300's, I believe their listed at just over 40 too, again the big Aggie feels significantly heavier. Just for the record when I shipped my Aggie with a 4 space SKB lightweight rack, the shipping weight was 78 lbs! Thirty ponds for a box, bubble wrap, and a light rack, I'm not buyin that. KJung has owned both the Heart Rock and the Aggie and he is in agreement that the difference is the "Heaviest seven pounds ever". In all sincerity the difference between Kens Heart Rock and my Eden WT550 (23 lbs) feels less drastic then the "seven pound" difference between the Aggie and the Heart rock. I will repeat again, the Aggie is a great amp, with unlimited headroom, and it is far louder then many "1000 watt" heads. But it is a bugger for an old guy like me to move around. And I know three or four players who have bought one thinking 47 lbs, no big deal and have been shocked when they actually have to schlep it around. Now back to the regularly scheduled thread.....
 
#15
VeganBass,

I tried this cab quite awhile ago,but I can tell you what I know. I live in Nashville and there is a shop that stocks Schroeders very well.I have a 1212R and 1210R,and at the shop I tried a 1212L and a 1212R side by side.I was using the shop's head which is a power amp and one of the shop owner's own tube pre-amps.To answer your questions.

1.Yes it really was very light.I could lift it with one arm no problem.

2.The sound was very different than the 1212R.Using words on the computer to describe sounds is very difficult,but I'll try.It sounded more open and clearer to me.It was as though the 1212R was muffled or something.Which is strange because I don't feel that my own cabs are muffled at all.But in the shop that day,I was surprised.So I tried really cranking up the low end,(Which is what I really like),and the 1212L put out plenty of low hump.So I don't know what to tell you about it sounding more traditional,but it did sound very good.

3.Bottom line is always tough.For me it's an issue of price,sound,weight,reliability,and need.Do I really need something new.In this case I thought no,my present cabs are just fine.But the 1212L is very light,sounds great,built well,and priced fairly IMHO.

Hope this helps,and best of luck!
 
#16
countrybass said:
VeganBass,



2.The sound was very different than the 1212R.Using words on the computer to describe sounds is very difficult,but I'll try.It sounded more open and clearer to me.It was as though the 1212R was muffled or something.Which is strange because I don't feel that my own cabs are muffled at all.But in the shop that day,I was surprised.So I tried really cranking up the low end,(Which is what I really like),and the 1212L put out plenty of low hump.So I don't know what to tell you about it sounding more traditional,but it did sound very good.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the difference I'm hearing between my previous 1212R and my current 1212L.... I'm not sure if it's due mostly to the new Neo speakers are the revised crossover... but whatever it is, it's a definite improvement over the very nice sounding 1212R.

Nice to get confirmation that others are also hearing what I'm hearing. That being said, I was perfectly happy with the sound of my 1212R... it was mainly a weight thing for me.

K
 
#18
I had Jorg install snap handles in the top and bottom of my 1212R. This way I can strap it onto a small lugage cart with the long dimesion vertical and grab it by the snap handles when I encounter stairs. IMO it's much easier to carry like this.
 
#19
I had a local bassist try out my 1210R at his rehearsal last night. He had a peavey preamp, a 31 band eq (see....I'm not the only one:eek:) and a Crown 650? or 600, with a overseas Specter 6 string he modified with active EMG pickups. They were an instrumental fusion band. He normally plays with a custom built 212 with tweeter on top of a Hartke sub/118 cab. Again, his style of playing, the band's music (rock/jazz fusion...very very cool), cords, strings, premap, my usual argument, the 1210R at their rehearsal was much punchier, clearer and actually had more "perceived" volume at the same settings on the pre/head/and bass. It didn't have quite as much very low end of the 118, but that cabinet only effectively covers about up to 250hz and not that efficiently.

Point being, I've never been one to understand the argument/comments about "fundamental" not sounding right. But certainly in a cabinet as small as a Schroeder 112, or 1210/1212 regardless of R or L, I think one's expectations of a cabinet that has that pure "fundamental" with no loss of whatever it is one hears or doesn't (something again that in my humble opinion....99 out of 100 bassists in my area could care less about or even know what it is we're supposed to be hearing or not hearing that describes a loss of the "fundamental".) God bless you guys that can actually hear this phenominon that likely occurs in most cabinets, some more or less than others.

At last night's demo, here's a guy who played all over the neck high's low C and B quite a bit, and never said, boy that fundemental's just dropping of the table? I mean, I don't know.

I'd certainly be interested in knowing which cabinets have the reputation of both ends of the spectrum.....solid low end fundamental with minimal falloff and perhaps ones that just done reproduce a good fundamental at all..Again I'm not asking this to stir up yet another controversy...I'm doing so educationally so when I go into a store or see or hear a group that has these better or worse low end fundamental cabs, I can make it a point to try to acutally hear it...or if someone can explain it non technically, I'll take another listen to my own stuff and see.

Is the falloff measured by the frequency response numbers? like 38 hz or is it the + or - numbers after the frequency response which help indicate potential fall off of the fundamental.

Anyhow, a little educational help here would be greatly appreciated and not argued about by for sure....

thanks and look forward to the coursework.

Lkaye
 
#20
Forgot to say....how different this guy's tone was than mine. Day and night. the 1210 enhanced his tone in his band and made him clearer and the drummer and both guitar players remarked how much more it cut through.

Back on topic....weight, vs tone vs volume vs price vs reliability vs I'll add service and more I'm sure are the factors I weigh when purchasing cabinets. If I feel that the L's are lighter AND sound better than my R, that's a major bonus, but I will say that the little 1210R amazed me and that entire band last night...I had no idea it could sound like that being totally used to how I have it set up and how it's sounded with others using mine and their basses through my amp/eq/and cabinet.

Larry
 

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