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Scientists still don't understand how a bicycle works

#21
Tony Flow MMMM said:
Somewhat. Take a bicycle, sit on it and try to balance without moving forward...
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Easy on a fixie and with practice and concentration it can be done on a freewheel. My point is the elements of balance and intent are to key riding a bike.

There's an annoying layman's assumption that not only do we need to understand in minute detail everything that is but that we're actually close to it. So when something as commonplace riding a bicycle isn't completely understood it seems like something is wrong. I guess I just don't find it especially remarkable that we don't know everything.
 
#22
I don't understand what's not to understand. When the bicycle is in motion, its wheels are gyroscopic and want to remain in their plane of rotation, vertical, in this case. When we're riding a bicycle and we want to turn, we apply a lateral force to the wheels by leaning, forcing the wheels out of their plane. We constantly make minor adjustments to the attitude of the wheels when perturbations such as bumps or irregularities in the surface require it. The balance mechanism in our inner ear is sensitive enough that we can detect when the bike wants to move in a new direction, and we make the necessary correction.
 
#23
jeffbonny said:
Easy on a fixie and with practice and concentration it can be done on a freewheel. My point is the elements of balance and intent are to key riding a bike.

There's an annoying layman's assumption that not only do we need to understand in minute detail everything that is but that we're actually close to it. So when something as commonplace riding a bicycle isn't completely understood it seems like something is wrong. I guess I just don't find it especially remarkable that we don't know everything.
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I never said it was impossible just much harder to do when still. Damn near
 
#24
Munjibunga said:
I don't understand what's not to understand. When the bicycle is in motion, its wheels are gyroscopic and want to remain in their plane of rotation, vertical, in this case. When we're riding a bicycle and we want to turn, we apply a lateral force to the wheels by leaning, forcing the wheels out of their plane. We constantly make minor adjustments to the attitude of the wheels when perturbations such as bumps or irregularities in the surface require it. The balance mechanism in our inner ear is sensitive enough that we can detect when the bike wants to move in a new direction, and we make the necessary correction.
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If you read the article they some how tested an anti gyroscopic wheel, don't ask me how. I have seen motorcycle videos trying to teach people turning is ALL In counter steering, the handlebars were fixed straight they could not be turned. The rider accelerated the bike to 60 mph and tried to steer the bike using only his weight, the motorcycle was only slightly affected. The bike wanted to stand straight up. Yet, slow down this becomes much harder.
 
#27
nashvillebill said:
Really! After all...did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?:D
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And wasn't their deadly accuracy on that raid attributed to a gyroscopically stabilized bomb sight? A device BTW even it's designers were at a loss as to why the gyro made it so deadly accurate. I guess it's just another one of those mysterious things mankind was never meant to understand. :D
 
#30
Munjibunga said:
I don't understand what's not to understand. When the bicycle is in motion, its wheels are gyroscopic and want to remain in their plane of rotation, vertical, in this case. When we're riding a bicycle and we want to turn, we apply a lateral force to the wheels by leaning, forcing the wheels out of their plane. We constantly make minor adjustments to the attitude of the wheels when perturbations such as bumps or irregularities in the surface require it. The balance mechanism in our inner ear is sensitive enough that we can detect when the bike wants to move in a new direction, and we make the necessary correction.
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I don't have the math to get into any kind of pissing match over this but I've ridden many thousands of miles on bicycles paying close attention to speed and efficiency. What you're saying sound pretty accurate.

I don't doubt the possibility that at some level far above what's necessary to the practical use of a bicycle there are things not completely understood about the physics of the function of one. But puff pieces like this article that don't get into specifics are worse than useless, they're misleading. It's funny though how much bunk can be sold by a guy with a Phud at the end of his name.
 
#33
Munjibunga said:
I don't understand what's not to understand. When the bicycle is in motion, its wheels are gyroscopic and want to remain in their plane of rotation, vertical, in this case. When we're riding a bicycle and we want to turn, we apply a lateral force to the wheels by leaning, forcing the wheels out of their plane. We constantly make minor adjustments to the attitude of the wheels when perturbations such as bumps or irregularities in the surface require it. The balance mechanism in our inner ear is sensitive enough that we can detect when the bike wants to move in a new direction, and we make the necessary correction.
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I almost entirely agree, with one small refinement: to turn most efficiently the rider momentarily applies a small amount of pressure to the handlebar in the 'wrong' direction. The wheel doesn't want to change it's path, so it transfers some of its angular momentum directly to the chassis in the form of torque. This torque forces the chassis and rider to lean in the 'correct' direction. From there, rake and trail bring the wheel back into line with the newly created direction of travel.
 
#35
Sam Hain said:
Try to explain the bike riding in this video...

http://vimeo.com/71347528
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I was into bicycle trials for a short time in the '90's. Even then I was a a little too old, non-athletic, and just plain big and oafish, to be any good. It seemed like maybe only 5 other guys in the whole Seattle area even had trials bikes. Most bicycle shops didn't know what I was talking about when I ask if they could order a "trials bicycle". I got to where I could bounce on the front wheel for a long time on my ratty old orange Ibis Trials Comp, but that's as far as I got. I have some Ot Pi and Hans Rey VHS tapes I haven't looked at in a decade. I gotta go see if the old Video cassette machine is even still hooked up to the TV.
 
#37
magnets-bitch-400x250.jpg
 
#38
nashvillebill said:
There's always a lot of "science-bashing" going on, has been for centuries. People make stupid statements like "scientists said the world was flat until Columbus proved them wrong" when in fact it was the scientists who figured out the world was round AND even estimated its size--around 300 BC, some 1800 years before Columbus. Or "scientists say bumblebees can't fly"...err really? I haven't heard any scientists claim bumblebees can't fly.

Unfortunately today there's quite an active anti-science agenda.
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Or like people who think the earth is only 6,000 years old :hiding::hiding::hiding::hiding::hiding::hiding:
 
#40
Chainsaw Willie said:
I was into bicycle trials for a short time in the '90's. Even then I was a a little too old, non-athletic, and just plain big and oafish, to be any good. It seemed like maybe only 5 other guys in the whole Seattle area even had trials bikes. Most bicycle shops didn't know what I was talking about when I ask if they could order a "trials bicycle". I got to where I could bounce on the front wheel for a long time on my ratty old orange Ibis Trials Comp, but that's as far as I got. I have some Ot Pi and Hans Rey VHS tapes I haven't looked at in a decade. I gotta go see if the old Video cassette machine is even still hooked up to the TV.
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Cool...I have been riding trials about 5 years now. Pretty much just picked it up to compliment my mountain biking.

It's still the same. A few shops can get the bikes and parts and there's a few dedicated shops that are run out of guys houses. Danny Macaskill helped out a bit with the sport. It's still an odd sport...but it's a blast!
 

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