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Scott's Bass Lessons - review for those curious

DarkStar90

Guest
Feb 4, 2008
719
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Well, since I've been home from my day job for just over a month now, I have really taken advantage and applied the free time to practicing.

I have been playing bass for 18 years, I have a music degree, and am always looking for study/inspiration. Because I always see adds on instagram and youtube videos, I decided to take advantage of the free trial for scottsbasslessons.com and see if it be a good resource for myself and my students. My opinion could be about any paid learning really. To be honest, I never expect much from these types of video courses, but I gave it a shot.

My cut and dry opinion: I will not be continuing my subscription. While the experience may be great for a beginner, once a player reaches an intermediate level, they probably wouldn't or shouldn't continue with this type of instruction.

Scott Devine seems like a really cool guy just trying to develop a community, and honestly making a resource with the best of intentions. My problems with his site could be personal.

There's nothing wrong with the site at all, the information on it, its delivery, organization, and guest instructors. Its a great site.

My issues are: Some of the course titles are misleading or improperly named. This causes you to encounter repeated information under the guise of a new title. For example: Rich Brown has a course called 'mastering the modes' and scott has a course called 'harmonic layering'. These two courses basically relay the same information, in a different delivery. Nothing wrong with them, but I don't like wasting time discovering that they cover the same material. None of the information found on this site is exclusive. Its just music. (Im aware all video lessons are like this, but some readers may not be, I'm just checking it out on their behalf). There are plenty of non famous people on youtube delivering the very same information. Picking the video courses feels a bit like finishing my popcorn while surfing the netflix menu before making a selection. There isn't any course that I'm specifically interested in or disinterested in. Some of the lessons seem very context specific (for example Adam Neely's lesson about playing swung quintuplets really only instructed me on how to hear his weird composition, and wasn't really something I was asking for, nor is it something I'm dying to practice). When you do finally pick a course, they feel like what could have been an hour long lesson is edited and stretched into multiple parts over a few hours, and there is often too much banter. Its really just better to go to each course and download the pdf packs that they come with. You can get through the courses much quicker by reading them. My patience was certainly tested by the length of some videos. One thing I disliked about all technique based instructional videos, is that they often explain things that a musician is bound discover on their own. Beginners don't see this at first, but it really sucks to be pulled into a video for a specific instruction only to figure out halfway through the video that you don't need to be refreshed on this concept, sometimes they feel like click-bait. The lessons are not tailored to you, and you if you are seeking instruction then why should you be qualified to pick which lessons you need? Its contradictory, and often you become overwhelmed with information.

One of the ways the site tries to incorporate a more personal teaching experience is by having live seminars where the user is able to chat and interact with the instructor. Thats cool, but these are scheduled and the instructor may be different from time to time. This kind of defeats the purpose of an 'on demand' learning platform, while trying not to do just that.

You also get messages about completing a practice log and keeping up with the community on their forum. These are great, but again, you can do the very same for free here on talkbass.

To conclude, it wasn't for me. Some of the instructors Scott has got are really a treat. However, when it comes to some of the players of youtube fame, I find it harder to be inspired by a player known for instagram clips and youtube clickbait videos than those on important recordings, but thats an opinion on social media musicians generally though.

My alternatives for curious bass students:
Plenty of free youtube lessons/lectures for music theory, you don't need celebrity players to teach you these concepts. Your library will also have plenty of free music theory resources. MarloweDK has a backlog of ten years worth of bass instruction on his channel for example.

The Jazz Bass Line Book by Mike Downes, literally covers a ton of universal harmonic and rhythmic concepts and applies them to walking bass lines. The concepts are explained in a few sentences, leaving you more time to apply them to the bass. It the best jazz instruction book for bass, and thats after years of using the Rufus Reid book.

Any of the books by Janek Gwizdala. The pdf's are pretty reasonably priced. His lessons are quick, and cover hours of practice in a simple paragraph. His etudes are musical, and challenging.

Bass Grimoire: a Big red book of scales. It maps out the scales on the fretboard, and tells you which chords are compatible. It doesn't tell you how to practice them, but scale practice methods are universally applicable. Plenty of online resources for scale practice.

Jeff Berlin's Chord Tone System: it has every chord tone pattern found in the most common chord types on the bass.

Anthony Wellington's 'Yard Stick' of rhythm concept. Not a book, but a concept he teaches in Victor Wooten's Groove Workshop video. Its on youtube. Teaches you how to feel subdivisions.

'Slap It!' A classic book on slap bass technique, and a great book for practicing reading.

Playing with fellow musicians, or more experienced musicians.

There is an endless list of resources I could list here.

Your favourite bass players play on records. Learn their lines, and analyze which techniques and concepts they are applying. Nothing sucks more than learning a technique that you never end up using because some video recommended that you do. Nothing propelled my learning more than learning lines from Flea, Geddy Lee, Stuart Zender, Jamerson, Jaco and many others... This is the way you will engrain concepts and techniques from music that speaks to you. Its all there. Music is a language and if something speaks to you, then that means you have an understanding of that sound, pursue what speaks to you.
 
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I'd also like to add that some great players aren't necessarily great educators. Watching the Bobby Vega 'course' was a little disheartening. I love the guy's playing, but watching the course and seeing how Scott was trying to get some instructional information out of him was like squeezing water from a rock. "How do you do that bobby?" "Oh its just like slathering sauce on all the meat on the bbq" (or something to that effect) Cool...

The course basically turns into an interview, and I wasn't left with anything to practice.

Entertaining but not instructional.
 
Good review! There are some great things to be found but I kind of agree with all your points. If you are a really advanced player it can be a good resource though because you know exactly what you want to learn or in which player you are interested to learn from. But like you said it can be learned from books, records or free YouTube videos just as well or maybe even better. Or better yet take real lessons from a good teacher. Especially as a beginner.
 
Timely post, as I was reading Mark's (Professional Bass Player) Diaries yesterday and today and was intrigued by his regular reference to SBL. The free videos I found on YouTube seem to have high production values, though they are either too short to include detail I want to know or padded with chatter I don't care about (typical for YT videos, IMO, not unique to Scott).

So, I duckduckgo'd it up tonight and was disappointed. Slick web site, to be sure. The big red flag for me is the "Free 14 Day Trial Sign Up Now" button on every page, yet there is apparently no way to find pricing anywhere on the SBL site until after you sign up. The "About" page tells me about Scott and his journey and how proud he is of his stats, but nothing about what this will cost me. Not my gig.

Thanks @vinnydbass for the review and the pointers to other material; appreciated!
 
WHAT!!!!
Somebody on TB doesn't think Scot's lesson are one step away from personal instruction at Berklee?

I have avoided criticizing Scott because:
He is a nice and sincere guy
He does have stuff to show beginners to intermediate players
He seems to do well with some TBers..
In a few cases, i fast forwarded thru his lectures for the meat, and there was some good stuff.

For mr, i cant stand the non essential chit chat. And it wouldn't hurt to put some sheet music up on the screen.

I am glad to see he is successful, but i am not part of his target audience.

I have studied with some great instructors. If you haven't don this, try it. You get what you pay for.

If anybody wants to recommend a online course for advanced bass players, please advise.

Most of my online time is with guitar, sax,trumpet and piano videos. Lars Jensen and the Be Jazz Guitar forums are highly recommended.
 
WHAT!!!!
Somebody on TB doesn't think Scot's lesson are one step away from personal instruction at Berklee?

I have avoided criticizing Scott because:
He is a nice and sincere guy
He does have stuff to show beginners to intermediate players
He seems to do well with some TBers..
In a few cases, i fast forwarded thru his lectures for the meat, and there was some good stuff.

For mr, i cant stand the non essential chit chat. And it wouldn't hurt to put some sheet music up on the screen.

I am glad to see he is successful, but i am not part of his target audience.

I have studied with some great instructors. If you haven't don this, try it. You get what you pay for.

If anybody wants to recommend a online course for advanced bass players, please advise.

Most of my online time is with guitar, sax,trumpet and piano videos. Lars Jensen and the Be Jazz Guitar forums are highly recommended.

Lol, I was never expecting college level lessons, but I can still have issues with something that costs me per month and from what I saw, the entire video course library can be replaced with a few books or other resources, pretty much for free.

I literally joined to check it out, I never for one minute thought it would replace my music degree.

As I mentioned, I think its a great resource for those who can connect with it. I just couldn't. The videos are often too long, the banter is sometimes unnecessary, and recycled concepts can be found in a few courses. Downloading the pdf files for each of the lessons is the same as buying a few books, which I would rather do.
 
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I'd also like to add that some great players aren't necessarily great educators. Watching the Bobby Vega 'course' was a little disheartening. I love the guy's playing, but watching the course and seeing how Scott was trying to get some instructional information out of him was like squeezing water from a rock. "How do you do that bobby?" "Oh its just like slathering sauce on all the meat on the bbq" (or something to that effect) Cool...

The course basically turns into an interview, and I wasn't left with anything to practice.

Entertaining but not instructional.
Thanks for the review, this is kind of what I expected, and have been apprehensive about trying it. There are two things I would like to work on at the moment, playing chords and developing some Vega like pick technique. I'm due delivery of a 5 string and e-c strings. I thought I would get more out of Janek's structured approach than a range of overlapping approaches from various teachers on Scott's site. Scott also uploaded a video of 10 easy chords for beginners recently, with 5 fret spreads that was too deep end for me. while it did have me thinking a little differently about options on the fingerboard, some of his seemed like I might cause my self an injury without working up to them. So also seeing you endorsement of Janek's approach in the same post was reassuring.

Scott also had an advertising video with Bobby Vega, and in that video you could see all the problems that you describe in the course, which didn't appeal to me. As lovely and generous as Bobby seems, he doesn't seem adept at articulating what he's doesn't, and also doesn't like prescribing to anyone how anything should be done. I've actually found Cody Wright's videos describing Bobby's (and Cody's) technique, more helpful.
 
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Thanks for the review, this is kind of what I expected, and have been apprehensive about trying it. There are two things I would like to work on at the moment, playing chords and developing some Vega like pick technique. I'm due delivery of a 5 string and e-c strings. I thought I would get more out of Janek's structured approach than a range of overlapping approaches from various teachers on Scott's site. Scott also uploaded a video of 10 easy chords for beginners recently, with 5 fret spreads that was too deep end for me. while it did have me thinking a little differently about options on the fingerboard, some of his seemed like I might cause my self an injury without working up to them. So also seeing you endorsement of Janek's approach in the same post was reassuring.

Scott also had an advertising video with Bobby Vega, and in that video you could see all the problems that you describe in the course, which didn't appeal to me. As lovely and generous as Bobby seems, he doesn't seem adept at articulating what he's doesn't, and also doesn't like prescribing to anyone how anything should be done. I've actually found Cody Wright's videos describing Bobby's (and Cody's) technique, more helpful.

yea the best way to learn from bobby is just listening and watching. In Scott's defence, that video looked like he was uncomfortably trying to get bobby to instruct within their time limits. It really didn't happen.
 
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I learned how to play electric bass using Jaco Pastorius' Method for Electric Bass 20+ years ago. My first copy had a cassette. My second had a VCR.

I open this book often and still discover little gems. Jaco, homeless and strung out, was still amazing.

I strongly recommend this book/video if you are willing to go OFPF and 5 finger stretch. Your sight reading skills need to be good to catch all of his syncopation. Transcriptions are pretty accurate.

I am talking specifically about the Jaco/Jerry Jermott book with Scofield.

There is another "Jaco Pastorius Method Book" by one of his students which I didn't find very useful.
 
Ultimately, it's not Scott's lessons or anybody else's that determines how good a player you will be, but how hard you are willing to work at becoming a great player.

An enthusiastic player will suck up bass knowledge like a sponge, practice effectively, and seek out the people that can teach them. And he will become a player. If you are just starting out bass but committef, maybe Scott is a good deal.

Mediocre students will sign up for a course, watch a few things and wait for the Bass Fairy to tap them on the shoulder and turn them into Victor Wooten. Ain't going to happen.
 
Ultimately, it's not Scott's lessons or anybody else's that determines how good a player you will be, but how hard you are willing to work at becoming a great player.

An enthusiastic player will suck up bass knowledge like a sponge, practice effectively, and seek out the people that can teach them. And he will become a player. If you are just starting out bass but committef, maybe Scott is a good deal.

Mediocre students will sign up for a course, watch a few things and wait for the Bass Fairy to tap them on the shoulder and turn them into Victor Wooten. Ain't going to happen.

You are right. Obviously its up to oneself to stay disciplined. I'm specifically talking about bassists who are proactively searching for instruction and inspiration and not finding it through sources they are paying for, or worse, paying for something they later find out can be had for free. Music theory is public domain, and no matter which guest artist explains it to you, the rules remain the same. Guest artists should be teaching you about the playing they are known for, not basic theory. Yet on SBL you have lessons from Scott, Rich Brown, Phil Mann, Adam Neely regarding basic jazz theory. You pay that premium for courses because the bassist your watching has a name or following. Joe Blo on youtube can teach the same theory lessons for free, and it will be in one 10 minute video not a 10 part, 8 hour long course. I'm also not a fan of the lick based videos Scott has. Some of the licks are just Funky jazzy flash that you'll likely not use. I acknowledge that a lot of effort goes into running a site like SBL, trying to accommodate a wider audience is part of that. But thats the crux, the lessons are general. It costs about 40$ per month. I can think of many books covering way more information that could be bought in one year as an example of other sources of education. I can think of a jazz theory text book that took me all through university, which I purchased for 30$ that can easily replace all of the theory courses on there. I can keep them too.
 
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I learned how to play electric bass using Jaco Pastorius' Method for Electric Bass 20+ years ago. My first copy had a cassette. My second had a VCR.

I open this book often and still discover little gems. Jaco, homeless and strung out, was still amazing.

I strongly recommend this book/video if you are willing to go OFPF and 5 finger stretch. Your sight reading skills need to be good to catch all of his syncopation. Transcriptions are pretty accurate.

I am talking specifically about the Jaco/Jerry Jermott book with Scofield.

There is another "Jaco Pastorius Method Book" by one of his students which I didn't find very useful.

You mean the famous and only instruction video of Jaco.? I wouldn’t call that a method. It’s pretty random and not structured.
 
One problem with learning from YouTube or one line courses like Scott’s is that there is just too much choice for a beginner. It’s too overwhelming and too huge to grasp. So it is very hard as a beginner to know where to start and which path to follow and when to learn what. So the danger is that you skip some basic steps and ruin your technique because of this. There is no real teacher to tell you how to proceed or point out your mistakes immediately. So for a beginner I would advise to take real lessons for at least two years or so and then see what your next move will be.
 
Ultimately, it's not Scott's lessons or anybody else's that determines how good a player you will be, but how hard you are willing to work at becoming a great player.

An enthusiastic player will suck up bass knowledge like a sponge, practice effectively, and seek out the people that can teach them. And he will become a player. If you are just starting out bass but committef, maybe Scott is a good deal.

Mediocre students will sign up for a course, watch a few things and wait for the Bass Fairy to tap them on the shoulder and turn them into Victor Wooten. Ain't going to happen.

This....I used SBL some time ago and I found it it extremely helpful...some of the courses got me to thinking about things differently in ways that didn’t seem too overwhelming...there’s plenty of people on his website that are pretty eager to help no matter how many times the same questions come up (the same can NOT be said for TB) and it’s an easy to follow method for the most part...I got a lot out of the chording and sight reading courses and would have no where near the facility I have for both without giving those courses a try...some things I just flat out wasn’t interested in, but that’s what happens when you have a website like that that is trying to include a little something for everybody...not all the “classes” are actually classes and are more of a bass chat kinda thing...it’s unfortunate that Vega didn’t get too detailed in his picking technique it as someone said, maybe he’s not the best teacher or even maybe that’s not something he was prepared or willing to do in an limited amount of time....

It’s not for everyone, but I think for $12 dollars or whatever it is a month, it’s a helluva tool for someone that studies the instrument independently, especially a fledgling musician who can’t get private instruction ...it’s never gonna replace lessons with an in person seasoned player who can teach, but it’s a lot better than a lot of other videos I’ve seen on YouTube where the instructors are more caught up in playing these crazy licks that seemingly tickle the hell out of themselves then they are in making sure the information is being shared in a way lots of people can understand...I think it’s a valuable method....maybe more temporary than long term but you can cancel out of that subscription after a year or two with a lot of information if you focus..
 
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Thank you sincerely for taking your time to start this thread and writing an articulated, long first post. I have to admit that my heart sinks a little when someone references Scott's Bass Lessons, but I realize that this is a massively opinionated, subjective view on Scott's business and personality. Having said that, while I am put off by Scott's method of delivery in his free videos and would not want to pay for the other stuff, I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying it out. I am certain that I could learn a lot from Scott (or just about anyone on this forum) but, like the Bobby Vega example, I don't think that his videos would be my number one resource when it comes to music education. Of course - massive grains of salt - I haven't seen any of his paid content, and I'm just a nobody in the (music) world.

Funnily enough, my teacher, who has zero internet presence, adores Scott's lessons, while I really like working with my teacher :laugh: And I have no problems with that as long as my teacher continues being himself and teaching the way he does :cool:

I apologize for the somewhat unfocused post; divorcing myself from personal preferences and taste doesn't come easy to me when trying to objectively look at things I care about. I wish Scott lots of success in the future and I will definitely pay money to see him and his band play when I happen to be around a place where they're gigging.
 
If agree with your assesment. I have a lifelong subscription for SBL Academy which i picked up on the cheap. But i use it occasionally. The quality of the courses is deteriorating with the influx of guest courses. Some are inspirational and present interesting concepts but they don't present real study material.

However SBL does make newer courses which (in my opinion) have a high eductation value. But they aren't distributed on the SBL Acadamy. There is a new platform Scott Bass Lessons Teachable. Acces to the courses or modules are sold separately.
 
You mean the famous and only instruction video of Jaco.? I wouldn’t call that a method. It’s pretty random and not structured.

If you can play what's in that book well and understand it, you will be a much better bass player.

The absolute worst video is Fleas Starlicks, in which he does an opening jam with Chad Smith then tells the audience he knows nothing about music theory, demonstrates aboutc30 sec on slapping and talks bs with River Phoenix for 50 minutes

Joe Walsh was borderline coherent in his Starlicks video