Double Bass Seeking More 'Rattle' on Lower Strings

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Great post by @jj.833 above. In addition to the points he makes, I’d also point out that the OP seems to be plucking way higher up on the board than is optimal for getting an aggressive sound. I’d suggest trying plucking near the end of the board and seeing if that helps.

 

[Don Hergert]

Just to reiterate a point though, big scoop [aka relief] is intended for thicker low tension strings. With that combination of strings and scoop the growl [aka buzz] comes more naturally. If a fingerboard is already setup for that, but the strings being used are thin higher tension strings, getting that affect is going to be more difficult even with proper technique. So there are two setup related ways to solve that, one being getting the fingerboard dressed again, the other being moving to lower tension thicker strings.

The problem is that fingerboard dressing removes wood, so there is a practical limit to how often that can be done without having to replace the fingerboard, which is a much more detailed and expensive job.

Judging from the descriptions coming from the OP, if the desired sound is important enough, the decision sounds more like it's a setup decision.

 

[Jay Corwin]

I do what he's talking about quite a bit, but I've always used lower tension strings. Lower tension strings, plus how you pull the string to get it to deflect. When I do it I'm pulling the E string all the way down the fingerboard then letting it go - not playing a normal stroke if you will.

 

[bass player 53]

As has been mentioned, the guys that get that E string sound are protégés of Ray Brown, namely John Clayton and Christian McBride. The string is fairly (relatively) high and flexible. They get that sound with firm plucking with the fleshy part of the index finger.
John Clayton is sometimes left out of these types of discussions, but he has excellent instructional and performance videos.

 

[dfp]

I think some comments have strayed from what OP is talking about and looking for. OP wants a rattle (or buzz, he also said) sound with a strong pluck of the open E. Not a single “click” sound. Not a rockabilly sound. A classic jazz sound that you hear on jazz recordings and at jazz gigs, by the greats and the no-names alike… (for a “great” try Ray Brown, “The Real Blues”, from Live at the Loa, 0:57 mark). OP wants to be able to get that, and from his own video it looks like he plucks with enough gusto to achieve it on an optimally set up instrument. And whether wanting the sound to be heard is useful? I am pretty sure OP’s choice is hardly a controversial one, within the idiom. (See Ray Brown again).

You get that open E rattle sound when string hits fingerboard. Make there be less distance between the string and fingerboard, get that sound easier. Yes you can change the angle of attack and get it, IF your fingerboard is dressed correctly to allow it to happen that way. But in general, with the fingerboard optimized, very little alteration of technique is required, other than varying the force of the pluck.

If the fingerboard needs dressing so be it, a newish one is plenty thick to survive many dressings over many years. Having one replaced is also not impossible. Not having the bass set up how you want it, when what you want is entirely reasonable, attainable, and stylistically embraced would be pointlessly self defeating.

 

[crd]

Are you looking for something that sounds like this?

I get that kind of sound by kind of plucking with a lot of my finger, like Christopher F suggested. I also pluck with a little bit of upward or downward motion to make the string vibrate in all directions rather than just side to side. I also play with high action and gut strings which helps.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Hi everyone,

I'm a double bass player from Italy, and I think I have a setup-related question.

Two years ago, I bought a 3/4 (105 cm scale length) fully carved Romanian double bass. It’s not fancy, but I really like the way it sounds. A couple of months later, I took it to a luthier who installed bridge adjusters, planed the fingerboard, filed the nut to the correct height and did some other work.

I currently have regular Pirastro Perpetual strings (I used to have Spiros 3885 Weich), and the string height at the end of the fingerboard is: G/E = 4 mm/7 mm.

I play mostly pizzicato, but I also practice bowing some etudes or solo pieces. At the moment, I don’t plan to play in a classical orchestra.

What I’m looking for is more "rattle" on the lower strings when I dig in with my right hand—essentially, I want a "musical" buzz (I’ve posted a video as an example).



Right now, the bass sounds very clean. When I hit the E string hard, it produces a clean low E—strong and deep, but clean.
I tried to bottom down the adjusters, but the strings get too low and the rattle isn't quite there yet.

I measured the fingerboard scoop by pressing the strings at the extremes of the fingerboard, and I can slide a 2.5 mm Allen wrench under the E string and 2 mm under the G string.

What could be the solution? Would lessening the fingerboard scoop help?

Thanks for your valuable suggestions!

There is a click on the loose E at 0.22 on the video. Also on other notes during the video. I am a bit surprised, because I see "rattle" as a compromise; the result of having the strings (too) low, for playability purposes....
I like the sound and playing on the video. The strings sound quite mellow, what are they? This could also result in less "rattle".

 

[Luca Visconti]

I think there's some misunderstanding going on.
I'm not the guy in the video in my #1 post. That's Zoltan Dekany.
I tried a couple of your suggestions on my RH plucking, I managed to achieve some of that rattle, but I had to strike the string with too much power in order to get just a hint of it.
My mind keeps telling me that there's some minor setup trick involved here; I enjoy playing the Perpetuals, I wouldn't want to change them.

 

[Luca Visconti]

I recorded through my phone a couple of seconds on the E string.



You can hear that the growl is there, but to achieve the rattle I have to smack the strings unnaturally; if I wanted to do this, for example, at the end of a triplet fill in a Blues (as Ray Brown did many times), it would throw my timing off and the note would jump out in volume.

 

[loukash]

You can hear that the growl is there, but to achieve the rattle I have to smack the strings unnaturally

If you listen to this track I've recorded years ago, there's a rattle I played around 1:00:

https://bluesalot.ch/music/bluesalot.ch_2016_02_sailingshoes.mp3

Is this the sound you're after?
Note however, that I haven't played it on an upright bass but on my trusty old fretless Eko BA/4 acoustic bass guitar recorded with an AKG C3000 mic. The bass track was a combination of several takes, and I loved this kind of rattle so I put it in deliberately.

On the upright bass, I've been also trying to replicate this exact rattle moment when we perform this song, but so far with mixed results. On the recording it was also rather coincidental, after all.

 

[dfp]

I had a professor in college (jazz performance program) who’s CV included stints in Blakey’s band in the 80’s, Freddie Hubbard, etc, who insisted that for his tastes, the acoustic bass in jazz simply HAD to have or at least be capable of that low E rattle, or else some “it” factor was missing. Not everyone agrees, obviously, but I think in the genre, his was not exactly an outlier opinion. See again, Ray Brown, et al.

 

[dfp]

My mind keeps telling me that there's some minor setup trick involved

Your mind is correct, but I wouldn’t call it a trick, just set up in general. You apparently have more scoop than is optimal to achieve the rattle when you want it, if you want to produce it with less effort. If you had not enough scoop, you’d be getting too much rattle. It’s really not mysterious, but I guess we all want proof…. I proved it to myself with my bass in college. Flat fingerboard, too much rattle. I sanded some scoop under the E string around the heel area, broadly, a little at a time. Dialed the rattle in to where I wanted it: there if I dug in, but not there if I was plucking at medium strength. That was enough proof for me!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

For the open string E the nut must be rather low. But a deep scoop indeed doesn’t help.
If the fingered F to G on the E string give you sone growl but not on the open E then the nut is too high.

 

[AGCurry]

For the open string E the nut must be rather low. But a deep scoop indeed doesn’t help.
If the fingered F to G on the E string give you sone growl but not on the open E then the nut is too high.

"Growl" is a factor of stopped notes. OP is not talking about growl.

 

[dfp]

0:57

 

[Rebop]

The last bass I resurrected had this. I spent a lot of time dialing in the rattle of the E string weirdly enough.
The scoop of the fingerboard is everything. Long story short, make it a slightly flatter than normal.

I took a slow motion video of the "jazz rattle" happening when I was dialing in the fingerboard.
As you can see, the rattle happens after the fundamental settles and all the other harmonics start coming out.

I have no idea why I made this video. Hopefully other people find it interesting.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

…

I have no idea why I made this video. Hopefully other people find it interesting.

For me it was. Thanks!
Now I understand better what the OP meant.

 

[sean_on_bass]

just to help confirm what OP is looking for...is it this @Luca Visconti ? Made this quick demo to demonstrate what i think you are referring to. Hitting the E string note hard to cause the string to rattle against the fingerboard.

I'd argue this is a bit of a controversial technique...some see it as sloppy/unrefined playing. others see it as a cool effect that ups the energy level. i personally use it quite a bit since i've heard it a bunch in players like Ray Brown. it can be appropriate or inappropriate depending on the context. you need to have control as to when it should happen and shouldn't.

There is definitely setup component in that the string has to be close enough to the board and flexible enough to hit the board with a heavy attack. i am using downtuned spirocore solos. also there is a technique piece here as i am intentionally playing that low note really hard using the weight of my arm and gravity.

 

[jmpiwonka]

My bass was quite rattley all over when I got it.

Got the fb dressed with moderate scoop and nut height kinda high and it sounded good with lowish tension strings.

Put higher tension strings on and lowered nut height.
After I put the lower tension, 24kp maybe, I get the open E rattle. Not just at the initial thump from pizz, it is a long rattle. Not an unpleasant sound though.

So if I were the OP, I would look at nut height first.

 

[jmpiwonka]

Is this the e string rattle?
That bass isn’t too growly imo.