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Selling tickets for shows

#21
Thor said:
1) Does the venue operate on a for profit basis?
2) If so, does the venue sell food and beverages for profit?
3) Is the venue non profit?

Depending on your answer to the above, tell us what is the real goal? "Getting ppl in the door"... For what purpose? That's the real goal. So what is that?

Needless to say, my answer to your original question very much depends on what the actual end result that this activity is supposed to facilitate. An opinion without the relevant facts is a bit premature.
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1. We hope to one day make a profit.
2. We sell beers
3. We are not a non-profit

The goal is to have as many ppl as possible come in the door and get their faces rocked off. And beers in their bellies! The more ppl in the house the greater the experience is going to be for the band as well as the band will make more money since they are working on door split and in this case door split and whatever tickets they sell. The house takes 20% off the door to pay for sound engineer stage manager and door man. Everything else goes to the bands.
 
#24
So, what happens at the door?

From a band perspective, I know many if not most people who come to see us will pay at the door rather than dealing with the hassle of meeting up to buy tickets beforehand. Making the band sell tickets, know that the 'walk ins' are the bulk of the actual take ends up not looking great even if it's a 100% deal. On a club show, what, one out of every four in the door buys a ticket in advance if that much?
 
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#25
buldog5151bass said:
Without throwing any stones, many of these venues are far from fair to the bands - pay for play has a rather band rep. Depends on whether your intent is to get starving star struck teens, or good bands with a rep (and regulars).
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I think you're missing the point. The bands will split the door regardless if they sell any tickets. The benefit is for them to sell the tickets themselves and keep 100% of what they well. Or give them away to ensure a good crowd. Bands will never be on the hook for unsold tickets nor are the required to do so. It's just a way to help out the motivated bands earn more money and have more ppl at their show.

Most of the time "selling tickets" is the only way a band has to make money playing at those venues. WE will not be those venues. It's a tough thing to convince folks what I'm trying to do is helpful to them and in no way hurtful.
 
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#27
BurningSkies said:
So, what happens at the door?

From a band perspective, I know many if not most people who come to see us will pay at the door rather than dealing with the hassle of meeting up to buy tickets beforehand. Making the band sell tickets, know that the 'walk ins' are the bulk of the actual take ends up not looking great even if it's a 100% deal. On a club show, what, one out of every four in the door buys a ticket in advance if that much?
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Depends on the bands motivation I'd say. If a band is motivated they can make more dough by selling their own tickets or ensure a big crowd by giving them away if they so choose. The bands will always split 80% of the door or more if it's a sponsored show.

Most of the time folks are gonna buy at the door yes for club type shows. However the bands can beat the box office so to speak by selling their friends tickets before hand and pocket all the dough or as i mentioned give the tickets away to try and get more folks in the door. Band discretion.
 
#28
buldog5151bass said:
As they say, the devil is in the details (how much you take off the top, merch sales, etc.). Understand why people here are suspicious.
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I know exactly why ppl are suspicious! That's why I'm on here trying to figure out how to explain to the bands where they know I'm not trying to screw them! We don't take anything from merch sales and only 20% off the door to make sure we've got door sound and stage covered. and most of the time we make up the difference out of the bar anyway.
 
#29
capncal said:
Depends on the bands motivation I'd say. If a band is motivated they can make more dough by selling their own tickets or ensure a big crowd by giving them away if they so choose. The bands will always split 80% of the door or more if it's a sponsored show.

Most of the time folks are gonna buy at the door yes for club type shows. However the bands can beat the box office so to speak by selling their friends tickets before hand and pocket all the dough or as i mentioned give the tickets away to try and get more folks in the door. Band discretion.
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For the most part, I would say that that's at least the best ticket deal I've seen. Would you limit the number of presale the band gets? I'd be up front about the points at the door just to make sure. And I'd be as obvious about it not being PFP.
 
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#30
My initial thought when I saw the title was "Never buy into that crap!", but after reading it sounds like you have a fair plan for it, and I can definitely see how it would help bands out. The main problem you're going to have is the people who have been burned and have the same knee jerk reaction I did.
Best of luck to you.
 
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#31
Ahhh- it's a profit deal....

upload_2015-6-1_16-45-27.png
 
#32
13lues said:
My initial thought when I saw the title was "Never buy into that crap!", but after reading it sounds like you have a fair plan for it, and I can definitely see how it would help bands out. The main problem you're going to have is the people who have been burned and have the same knee jerk reaction I did.
Best of luck to you.
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Indeed and thank you.
 
#34
Profit sharing and overhead can be somewhat of a moving target. So far, I think the plan is reasonable as I understand it. The bands get a 4 to one split at the door. All of pre-sale tix by the band are kept by them.

Since there isn't a further description of the venue or business model, we'll have to work with some assumptions. Or look at set of scenarios.


Here's one -
400 person venue
6 bands, average 4 per band=24 people.
bands get 30 tix each = 180 tix.
Satellite sales move 110 of the presale balance of 220 tix, rest revert to the door of the venue for sale.
Bands A,B and C sell all of their tix. A,B and C now have $150 @ 5 bucks a ticket eac.
Bands D,E,F sell 1/2 of theirs. totalling 15 tix each- sales of 45 bucks each.

So, let's also assume the D,E,F tix revert to the door if not sold.

So, the door is now Satellite pre-Sales 110 tix x 5 dollar = $550
Lets say the door sells all the tix reverted from D,E, F 45 tix x $6 = 270
Plus all their own, 110 x 6 = 660
Total door is then 1480. Band share is 80% - 1184 total /6 = 197.30

Adding Bands A,B, and C get 347.3 each
E, D and F get 242.30 each.
House gets 20% of door or 296.00 with sound guy, bouncer and stage manager pulling just under a hundred each.
ABC get 86.82 for each guy.
EDF get 60.57 each guy.

And that's pretty much the topside of it. If they sell less, it gets worse.

Lets say the sell 10 tix per band.
Each band gets 50 bucks.
150 tix go back to door
Presales sell only half of theirs, that's 55 x 5 = $275
Now 255 tix are at the door. If only a half sell, at 6, that 765 at the door x .8 =612/6 = 102 per band.
So band sales plus door yields 152 per band/4 = 38.00 dollars each per band guy.
House door is 153 dollars to cover sound bouncer and manager,

That will get old fast, by the time people go in set up, pay the gas money and have a few beers, they are even if they are lucky.

If everything is close to perfect, it's workable. If it's weak, it's awful.

A band would do better risking a fixed contracted door % and same base pay trusting that they were good enough to make money at the door, IMO.

However, the analogy may be invalid, as I can't plug your numbers in for it. You do it and see where you think it works out. Basically the answer is at X amount of money or greater it works. Under X and it doesn't and define what that number is.
 
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#36
capncal said:
thanks for the input. that's about what i thought the response would be. and that's certainly the perception of the selling tickets game here as well.

i'm trying to modify that into something that can benefit both the band and the venue if properly executed, but doesn't hurt the band at the door if they don't want to participate in selling tickets.

Say it's a $6 show at the door. Pre-sell tickets are $5 and are available two locations in town or from a band member. The band keeps 100% of the tickets they sell personally. Money straight in their pocket. The pre-sell tickets from the satellite locations that come in are added to the til at the door and it's an 80/20 split. Bands split the 80 amongst themselves.

It's only to the band's benefit to sell the tickets themselves in this scenario. The band keeps 100% of the ticket value and we get a few extra folks through the door to buy beer.

Our venue includes pro-sound engineer, typically a stage manager and door man as part of the deal.

How do you present that to folks with a very negative initial opinion of "selling tickets?"
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Nothing wrong with that deal in principle. The troubles start with their doorstaff letting regulars and friends in for free. Then there's straightforward shorting on actual door sales. Run the door sales yourselves and hope to trust the other bands. The venue doorstaff run security.
 
#40
from my experience, tix sales is for new bands that haven't proved they can draw a crowd. If the band sells the tix (or just eats the cost of unsold tix), then the venue doesn't loose money if no one shows up. Not a bad way to start for young guys with 100's of friends and no families.

if a venue is dealing with an established band, the band should not be asked to sell tickets since there is a good chance the band will draw a good crowd.
 

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