Set Lists - why so much PAIN?

[ColonelZulu]

I may not be in such a unique situation, but I thought I'd get others' thoughts.

Gig-wise, for now, I only substitute for some bands. I had to put my regular gig on hiatus due to life just becoming overwhelming. But, I still have the gear and love to play once in a while.

So subbing is a perfect situation for the time being. In one case, I play with a corporate band a few times every May or June. They are really good all around considering they also have full time careers.

They must be happy with me because I'm always prepared and I dress the way they want and I make no fuss about really anything. Very much plug and play.

My only request, and it's the same every year, is that they provide setlists and make me aware of any key changes so I can max out my practice time and have everything down cold for the couple of rehearsals I'll do with them. I also print it out and put my cheat tips on it so I don't have to flip pages. I can read music, but I don't want to play behind a music stand. Looks like I'm in a high school jazz band.

It also helps me to have the songs in correct sequence because it helps me anticipate the next song when we finish a previous one. Like a habit from hearing them over and over.

But, I never get the set list until a couple of days ahead.

I don't know why it's always so hard.

In my Rush cover band, we liked to add and shelf songs all the time to keep it fresh for us. But playing bass and keys and pedals without a tech means I need to choreograph my transitions as part of my practice and rehearsal routine.

The singer would always balk at deciding on a set list and want to leave it up to me and the drummer. That would be fine if he didn't then recommend changes once we finalized and emailed out the list. He would want the order changed around to rest his voice at times. Completely understandable. So we would leave it up to him and he just would not do it.

I know this mostly comes down to personality types and people who want control without responsibility. But it really peeves me.

Why is this often so difficult?

Does anyone else have contention over the set list?

 

[Howlin' Hanson]

10 minutes and no responses yet. You must be the only one that is bothered by this.

In my band, late set lists are the norm. At least we follow them at the gigs. And I had to insist on certain songs being in the first set for vocal reasons.

 

[hrodbert696]

If it's a corporate band, I kinda expect the client would have say over a set list. I thought those groups have 500 song repertoires and the customer selects what they want to hear.

In one of my cover bands, the singer creates the set list. She knows what songs she can use to warm up her voice and what songs she can't sing until it's warmed up. We get to give her feedback - mostly the guitarist, if he needs to change tunings or tweak pedals or whatever. The drummer and I just go with it. I used to switch between 4- and 5-string basses and had a couple of stipulations because of that, but now I just play a 5er and not worry about it.

In the other band, there's no set list, we just call it as we go. It threw me for a loop at first, but now I'm used to it. The only downside is if the BL gets stumped what to do next and we have those evil pauses.

 

[samson3382]

What kills me is obsessing over the order right before showtime to the point we start late.

Well, guess we don't get to play those last three best songs we were saving for last.

 

[Goatrope]

I don't worry so much about order anymore. I do prefer to know the population of songs and their keys. If I'm subbing I do my best and learn to be flexible.

But I'm not jumping between keys and bass and lead vocals, so I can deal with more ambiguity.

 

[DinoRock]

My experience is quite different. When I was gigging 6 days/week playing originals in clubs and theatres, the keyboard/singer called out the tunes on the fly. He read the audience really well.

When I was in college paying the bills in a top-40 wedding band 5 shows/week, our keyboard player called out tunes on the fly.

I mostly do studio work these days but when I do play out it tends to be benefits involving a number of artists, so the set list and is fixed in advance - usually at least a week prior followed by a ton of last minute changes.

The only time I worked w a fixed set list was filling in or backing artists doing arena and stadium shows.

 

[ColonelZulu]

My experience is quite different. When I was gigging 6 days/week playing originals in clubs and theatres, the keyboard/singer called out the tunes on the fly. He read the audience really well.

When I was in college paying the bills in a top-40 wedding band 5 shows/week, our keyboard player called out tunes on the fly.

I mostly do studio work these days but when I do play out it tends to be benefits involving a number of artists, so the set list and is fixed in advance - usually at least a week prior followed by a ton of last minute changes.

The only time I worked w a fixed set list was filling in or backing artists doing arena and stadium shows.

Those are good points, but it's a whole different world when you are subbing a few times a year only.

 

[Gravy4001]

I agree with the OP. Recently joined a top 40 corp/wedding band and while they definitely have their stuff together - rehearsal recordings, charts on dropbox - they do change keys quite often and it would have saved me a lot of time shedding the new material correctly the first time. I've only played 3 shows with them so far so I'm still writing notes on my set list. For our last club gig I got the set list 3 hours before showtime which made it a little hectic to mark up my cheat sheet.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Some bands follow set lists, some don't - not much you can do. I've been in bands that did not use one at all.

Why not ask if they have any new songs or key changes - if they are using a sub, there is no reason why they can't get that to you further ahead of time. Those are the things you need sooner.

 

[DinoRock]

Those are good points, but it's a whole different world when you are subbing a few times a year only.

Oh, I completely understand. I was just saying that from my experience there are some bands that simply don't have fixed set lists as part of their culture. So, I suspect they are not being rude or inconsiderate, they just don't live in that world and likely even if they appreciate how much it might help you (and they recognize and appreciate that you are helping them by subbing), it's just not part of their DNA.

 

[Gougedeye]

In my main band we get set lists a week ahead of gigs, but we know the material so mostly its just to add or subtract songs. I do some sub work from time to time and I always ask for a set list as far ahead as I can get it. I, like the OP, want to be prepared. My requests seem to fall on deaf ears. The bands I sub for always say, "you'll do fine." Well, that may be the case, but I still like to know what is coming! I want to be prepared! I want the show to flow seamlessly, just as if their regular guy was there. Is that too much to ask? I'm with you OP!

 

[markoc]

I'm doing a sub gig next weekend, asked bl for a set list, "you don't need one". OK, anything I should listen to? "nah". OK, see you Saturday. Never met the guys in the band but they have good reputation in town so what the hell. I love flying by the seat of my pants.

 

[podiumboy]

My old band actually "broke up" over arguing about the setlist. In our band, the drummer and the singer were both always fighting for dominance. Singer wanted to play more originals, drummer wanted to play more covers. At our last gig, our drummer typed up a setlist (our setlists were always more or less an outline that we could and would deviate from quite often), and the singer got mad because there weren't enough of his originals on the list. So that whole gig was kind of back n forth between what the singer and what the drummer wanted to play. They kind of had a big argument, that resulted in the singer throwing the drummer's setlist into a burning fireplace. After that, it was just too much drama, and the band sort of ceased to exist from that point. We all still hang out as friends, but the band is no longer a part of our friendships.

 

[Session1969]

In my main band we get set lists a week ahead of gigs, but we know the material so mostly its just to add or subtract songs. I do some sub work from time to time and I always ask for a set list as far ahead as I can get it. I, like the OP, want to be prepared. My requests seem to fall on deaf ears. The bands I sub for always say, "you'll do fine." Well, that may be the case, but I still like to know what is coming! I want to be prepared! I want the show to flow seamlessly, just as if their regular guy was there. Is that too much to ask? I'm with you OP!

I scratch my head when people say that to me. It makes me wonder if I'm more concerned than they are about their own show.

 

[Session1969]

I'm doing a sub gig next weekend, asked bl for a set list, "you don't need one". OK, anything I should listen to? "nah". OK, see you Saturday. Never met the guys in the band but they have good reputation in town so what the hell. I love flying by the seat of my pants.

That's insane !

 

[markoc]

That's insane !

I think it depends greatly on the style of music being played. These guys are playing blues based, hippie jam tunes. I'm pretty comfortable following a guitar players hands and don't think they will pull me to far out of my box. If it was a prog rock band or something more technical, I would have passed on the offer.

 

[lfmn16]

I used to play with a BL that would throw the list out the window when he had a couple of drinks. We'd be playing his originals, old tunes he knew about half the chords and lyrics to, tunes nobody knew, etc. I know some people thrive on chaos, but what is the point of rehearsing if you throw it all out the window after you've had a few beers? The worst part was his originals were terrible and the unplanned tunes he'd throw in would be so he could solo ad nauseum. I never understood how he found so many jobs.

 

[christopea]

I've subbed for a worship leader friend of mine a number of times. He's similar to your corporate guys--never gets a set list out until the last minute, usually doing a bunch of material I've never even heard before. It's always a Sunday evening thing; he usually will get the list to me Saturday afternoon or evening. Once I didn't get it until Sunday morning. Then I have to track down recordings of all the songs to play along with. He only gives me song titles, not artist names. Sometimes the song names aren't given correctly either, so I end up learning a song we're not even doing while not learning one we are.

We rehearse for about one hour before the service and it's usually about 9 or 10 songs. He provides chord charts at the rehearsal (but not before), charts that consist only of lyrics and chord names written above them, often in a different key than we're playing. They're really tough to follow when you don't know the melodies or vocal phrasings for any of the songs. Worship music seems to be written with ease-of-play in mind most of the time, so the progressions aren't hard to follow, but it's annoying not really knowing starts and stops, and whatever little rhythmic details there might be.

I never feel prepared for those gigs to the extent that I like to be. I always end up doing them whenever he asks though. It can be pretty nerve-wracking but he's a friend, pays decently, and generally a pretty good dude. He just happens to be very laid back and disorganized as a band leader.

 

[ColonelZulu]

I've subbed for a worship leader friend of mine a number of times. He's similar to your corporate guys--never gets a set list out until the last minute, usually doing a bunch of material I've never even heard before. It's always a Sunday evening thing; he usually will get the list to me Saturday afternoon or evening. Once I didn't get it until Sunday morning. Then I have to track down recordings of all the songs to play along with. He only gives me song titles, not artist names. Sometimes the song names aren't given correctly either, so I end up learning a song we're not even doing while not learning one we are.

We rehearse for about one hour before the service and it's usually about 9 or 10 songs. He provides chord charts at the rehearsal (but not before), charts that consist only of lyrics and chord names written above them, often in a different key than we're playing. They're really tough to follow when you don't know the melodies or vocal phrasings for any of the songs. Worship music seems to be written with ease-of-play in mind most of the time, so the progressions aren't hard to follow, but it's annoying not really knowing starts and stops, and whatever little rhythmic details there might be.

I never feel prepared for those gigs to the extent that I like to be. I always end up doing them whenever he asks though. It can be pretty nerve-wracking but he's a friend, pays decently, and generally a pretty good dude. He just happens to be very laid back and disorganized as a band leader.

They had "Game of Love" on the set list. I learned the Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders version. I show up and it's Michelle Branch and Carlos Santana.
Oy.

 

[markoc]

I'm doing a sub gig next weekend, asked bl for a set list, "you don't need one". OK, anything I should listen to? "nah". OK, see you Saturday. Never met the guys in the band but they have good reputation in town so what the hell. I love flying by the seat of my pants.

Funny, I'm playing with my brother today for the first time in 20 years, (sax player). had almost the same conversation. Scott: what songs we gonna play? Me: I don't know. Scott: can you tell me the key before we start? Me: probably not. Scott: ok, cool. Playing his daughters wedding, let you know how it went.