So I got on with a local band here, and picked up a passive DI since I only have a small practice amp and they have a PA system for me to tie into. Since i like the concept of versatility and modularity, I think I'm just going to keep a DI rig as the major factor in my tone and once i get to a big amp I'm just going to do a simple power amp hooked up to my DI rig. Now my question is what kind of preamps, pedals, etc. are recommended for EQing on a DI rig? The band I'm on with is a metal band, so I want the option to add some SVT like dirt into my tone and I'll also tool around with some Burton-esque distortion and wah when I'm on my musical free time and have pedals for that already. I'm leaning towards bang for the buck factor so good budget recommendations are always welcome but at the same time I like to be able to EQ more aspects of my tone like being able to control my hi mids and low mids separately. Hit me with your advice fellas!
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Setting up a good DI rig
- Thread starter summerson1
- Start date
Typically, I just plug my bass directly into the direct box, and let the sound guy adjust EQ (if necessary). If you want to experiment with adding some dirt pedals or whatever, that's cool, but remember: less is often more.
Out of curiosity, which passive DI did you purchase?
Out of curiosity, which passive DI did you purchase?
Two things to consider here:
1. If you go pre-eq to the board, you are at the soundguy's mercy (real talk, most soundguys don't know Jack about mixing metal. Sad but true.) You will have no say in how you sound, and in a metal band, that is a surefire way to get completely buried in the mix. If you don't know/pay the soundguy, this WILL happen.
2. Be careful if you choose to just use a poweramp in stead of a full head. I went that route and regretted it after our first gig. What works for the PA may not necessarily work for what you need to hear on stage, and vice versa. It's always nice to send out a signal to the board from a preamp, which you can then adjust to your liking on the head without it messing with the soundguy's signal.
1. If you go pre-eq to the board, you are at the soundguy's mercy (real talk, most soundguys don't know Jack about mixing metal. Sad but true.) You will have no say in how you sound, and in a metal band, that is a surefire way to get completely buried in the mix. If you don't know/pay the soundguy, this WILL happen.
2. Be careful if you choose to just use a poweramp in stead of a full head. I went that route and regretted it after our first gig. What works for the PA may not necessarily work for what you need to hear on stage, and vice versa. It's always nice to send out a signal to the board from a preamp, which you can then adjust to your liking on the head without it messing with the soundguy's signal.
As your budget is tight and you are exploring i suggest pairing your DI with a Zoom MS60. That will give you a good amp sim,comp or Eq plus two more effects. Once updated and using the free ToneLib software it will be easy to explore and design sounds.
I have been using this exact setup for desktop recording the past couple of months and have rarely needed anything more. I do song demos and jingle recording for commercial clients with no complaints.
I have been using this exact setup for desktop recording the past couple of months and have rarely needed anything more. I do song demos and jingle recording for commercial clients with no complaints.
What I use for my home practice setup is a Joyo Orange Juice going into a Joyo California Sound going into a simple tube preamp with no EQ options going into an optical compressor and then into my headphones preamp.
Place a standard DI device after the compressor in this setup and ditch the headphones preamp and you got a great sounding DI setup.
Eventually I guess you could do without the tube preamp and compressor as well as what those add to the tone is fairly subtle nuances, though some sort of compressor at the end of the chain before the DI would probably still be recommendable.
Both the Orange Juice and the California Sound can be had very cheap.
I heard great things about using the Joyo American Sound as bass preamp as well.
The Orange Juice is an analog emulation of the preamp section in an Orange amp, the California Sound would be an emulation of the preamp in a Mesa Boogie amp and the American Sound the preamp of a Fender amp.
As I use the two preamp pedals the California Sound is my main tone shaper whereas the sound I dialed in on the Orange Juice is fairly close to my direct signal just slightly more defined and articulate.
I dialed in a slight bit of grid too on the California Sound by turning up the gain a bit.
These pedals act pretty close to how an amp would meaning that the dirt you dial in sounds very natural and acts dynamically to your play.
Place a standard DI device after the compressor in this setup and ditch the headphones preamp and you got a great sounding DI setup.
Eventually I guess you could do without the tube preamp and compressor as well as what those add to the tone is fairly subtle nuances, though some sort of compressor at the end of the chain before the DI would probably still be recommendable.
Both the Orange Juice and the California Sound can be had very cheap.
I heard great things about using the Joyo American Sound as bass preamp as well.
The Orange Juice is an analog emulation of the preamp section in an Orange amp, the California Sound would be an emulation of the preamp in a Mesa Boogie amp and the American Sound the preamp of a Fender amp.
As I use the two preamp pedals the California Sound is my main tone shaper whereas the sound I dialed in on the Orange Juice is fairly close to my direct signal just slightly more defined and articulate.
I dialed in a slight bit of grid too on the California Sound by turning up the gain a bit.
These pedals act pretty close to how an amp would meaning that the dirt you dial in sounds very natural and acts dynamically to your play.
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So if I'm going to the sound board as well as a power amp to hear what's on stage, where would be a good place to split the signal off to the power amp if say i go bass - dirt - eq? - DI? I can also move the eq to after the DI because it has a 1/4" output that splits the signal off independent of the XLR DI output to the board
If you’re using a lot of pedals I’d recommend a high compression/limiter and the end of your chain so you don’t send 20 different signals to FOH and create a nightmare.
I play DI only with in ears. No pedals though. A tone knob and comp really does enough for me.
I play DI only with in ears. No pedals though. A tone knob and comp really does enough for me.
A passive is designed to drive mic-level inputs on a mixer.
You are going to need preamp-level signals to drive a power amp.
Many good preamp pedals have excellent DI's.
You are going to need preamp-level signals to drive a power amp.
Many good preamp pedals have excellent DI's.
This is fine if you want the sound engineer or producer to take control, in some cases this might be desired but be sure to stay in the loop in use it as a learning process. I am surprised and disappointed in the number of players that will simply let go.
The Joyo Orange into Joyo California Sound is a potent combo that I sometimes use something similar as I really dig the punchy low mid grunt of the Mesa Boogie Bass 400 that into a passive DI should provide a good starting foundation.
OmniCabSim pedal.
This is a unit that will give you DI but most importantly it gives you a variety of ways to tweak your sound. The best way to describe it is as a 'speaker cab simulator', multiple ones, hence the name. This ensures you get a sound that's much like playing through a traditional amplifier and cabs. If you use any kind of overdrive, then in my opinion this is a must. Distorted bass when DI sounds fizzy and horrible, but put it through this and it'll sound just right.
I would build a DI rig around one of these. Last in the chain. Before it, anything you like that allows you to get the general sounds you want.
This, or if you need more distortion the new DP-3X (Doug Pinnick) pedal. Can't go wrong with Tech21.
Depends on what you want. I use an Avalon u5 di and Darkglass Alpha omega. The Avalon is a great clean DI the other is all about getting nasty. For gigs I run them in series.
Something you need to keep an eye on if you want to build a di + power amp setup is the outputs on the DI. You need a line level output to give most power amps a proper signal. My Avalon has a line level out, my Darkglass pedals don’t, Ive seen some that even have an output that are switchable with a push button or toggle switch. If I run the line level out from my Avalon to my power amp my rig is way way louder and cleaner than running me Darkglass pedals to the same power amp even running their volumes wide open
So taking all that into consideration, I really love the sound of Eden's Terra Nova amps, and saw that they have a Terra Nova DI module. It's a bit up there for price but it has all the EQ features i want and I think would pair decently with a power amp. Do you guys think that would meet my needs?
Tech21 makes a lot of great pedals, and actually the pedals I refer to in my post is cheaper but great clones of Tech21 pedals as well.
Some even prefer the Joyo American Sound to the Tech21 Blonde it is a clone of.
One thing though to be aware of with the two Tech21 pedals that have been recommended in this thread, the BDDI and the DP-3X:
The old original version of the BDDI has a baked in mid scoop and no mid control to compensate in case you don't like that particular sound.
The new V.2 does have a sweepable mid control however.
Both are great pedals, just as long as you are aware that the first version will give you a mid scooped tone.
Likewise the DP-3X (Doug Pinnick) pedal, that also is a fantastic sounding pedal, especially if you like to add dirt to your tone, cuts out a whole section of the mid frequencies of your signal completely in the process of making the dirt section blend in optimally with the clean tone.
As said not necessarily a bad thing, just something you need to take into concideration before deciding on weather or not these will be the right pedals for you.
Personally if I insisted on going the Tech21 way for my preamp and it had to be one of their bass specific products I would probably chose the new version 2 of the BDDI or the VT Bass.
Though choosing freely from all their products I would probably rather end up choosing either their Leeds (Hiwatt), Blonde (Fender), Oxford (Orange) or California (Mesa Boogie) that all can be used both as guitar and bass preamps.
Mind though that the Oxford and the California is out of production and that Joyo makes cheaper but excellent clones of the California (California Sound) and Blonde (American Sound) as well as the Orange Juice pedal that Joyo makes is based on the Oxford pedal but is missing some of the control parameters of the original (this was done to make it fit into a smaller chassis, whereas the California Sound and American Sound come in larger enclosures with all of the original controls).
On a totally different note, recommending something else than Tech21 preamp pedals and clones, perhaps the new TC Electronic SpectraDrive would be a good candidate too.
It is a digital pedal but sounds great, and connecting it via an USB cable to your computer and downloading a free app you get tons of additional parameters, beyond those that are physically available on the pedal, that makes it possible really to fine tune exactly how you want your tone to be, including a dedicated drive and compression section and the possibility to assign whichever of the virtual parameters you want to the pedal's physical control knobs.
Also it got a DI build in.
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I just got this and the plan is to use it as the main hub of my pedalboard. You can read my initial impressions here:
New Eden Module Preamp - anybody seen this yet?
It does not have any dirt though, so you would need a distortion/overdrive/fuzz in the loop (or in front of it). Referring to the above, my plan currently is to run the doug pinnick pedal in the loop, basically giving me 3 channels (clean, dirty, destruction) to play with, in addition to the enhance filter.
I does have two outs in addition to the DI, so you could be running separate ins and outs on a power amp if you want/need. They are marked as left and right, but I don't know if that is really so - basically if you run stereo effects in the loop or into the input, would they be routed out as such. I suspect this is not the case.
