Severe Dryness at Guitar Center

[electracoyote]

I don't humidify my instruments, and I live in Colorado which is a high-elevation desert. Not bad in the warmer months, bone dry in the winter.

The reason I don't humidify is because for me, it's a bit like chasing a unicorn, and I don't think I can keep up the pace. It's one more maintenance chore I could do without, and I'm not sure the return on the investment is worth it.

I have purchased so many fretted instruments by now that had fret sprout right out of the box, I long ago accepted it as a common reality, and my tech files them smooth as a baby's behind for not a lot of coin.

The instruments I acquire have two choices if they want to stay in my arsenal: Adapt and survive or be cast out. That goes for the acoustics too. I figure if the guitar was put together correctly and the wood is worth a damn, they will adapt and survive. If they can't adapt, I have no use for them.

So far, adaptation and survival has been the reality for the vast majority of my solid-bodied and acoustic instruments from basses to electric guitars, acoustic guitars, mandolins, banjos, and ukuleles. I can't even remember the last time a humidity-related issue forced me to give up on and eliminate an instrument. It is surely few and far between, and I shed nary a tear.

IME, guitars that get too warm all of a sudden give up relatively larger quantities of moisture so quick that, after repeated over-exposure, they develop bad symptoms as they dry out that sometimes take heroic measures to correct if at all. One thing I do is avoid temperature extremes at all costs and try to keep my stringed instruments as close to room temperature as possible at all times. So far, so good.

 

[Son of Wobble]

Man crucified for suggesting guitar shop would benefit from humidifiers, film at eleven...

 

[pcake]

Former GC Store Manager / GO Team / DM here.

This is a perpetual problem in the main room (not the Acoustic room). GC Leases the vast majority of the real estate housing their stores. Some spaces have greater challenges in this regard than others, but the Real Estate Team's buildout (what they give to general contractors building the new stores & revamping the old ones) has always failed to address this issue.

Nearly all GC locations have central, forced air heat, with no humidification. Some more astute Store Managers are willing to sacrifice part of their annual operating budget towards store-bought humidifiers, but it takes about a dozen of these to have much effect on these huge rooms.

In many cases the Store Managers are well aware of this problem, and how it affects sales & profitability, but have few options when it comes to correcting the issue. The standard operating procedure in most cases is; if any particular item gets very bad.... or a customer is interested in that item, it goes in the acoustic room for a few days in hopes that will correct the issue, which it often does. When it doesn't often GC will attempt to send the unit back to the manufacturer for a credit and call it unacceptable merchandise.... same as shipping damage. Claims like this were at the root of the beef which eventually caused the split between GC and Mesa Boogie.

My Advice to ANYONE purchasing an instrument from GC:

Every GC has a GC Garage Tech. Some of these folks are very talented, some not so much. Every GC has a humidity-controlled Acoustic Room. Ask that your instrument get a full setup and a few days in the Acoustic room free of charge. The will NOT say no, as long as you pay for the instrument, or put a serious deposit on it.

interesting post about GC's approach. thanks!

 

[pablomigraine]

The humidity was very well controlled back when I worked at GC ('00-'05). With the way the company has treated employees since the Bain era, I'm sure most of them these days couldn't care less if the entire inventory of the chain was ruined. It's hard to get excited about fret spout on unsold guitars when you can't even come close to making ends meet.

Bain is no longer the majority shareholder / shot-caller.. The current owner is their major creditor Ares Management. For more info see Invalid Link Removed

As much as people maligned Bain.... most of the impetus behind those criticisms was little more than anticapitalist and classist nonsense, which began as part of an election campaign years ago. (see below*) Nearly all of Bain's involvement had nothing to do with the day-to-day operation of the company... all of the old guard remained in their seats (including the founders etc) and the company was allowed to do as they pleased for the most pair, while Bain managed the Capital Structure of the company etc. The Ares takeover was nothing like that. Mike Pratt, who was hired on as CEO in the years just prior to the takeover, was a visionary who had what was IMHO an excellent and workable plan to return to the company to profitability. (While the company's corp structure allowed them to truthfully state that "each and every store is profitble" and operating in the black... the overall compounding interest put the entire organization in the red. The problem with Mike's plan is that it required more capital than the company had on hand (GC did in fact have unleveraged cash on hand at the time) and would require massive restructuring of corp debt and borrowing more. Ares would not accept the plan, as they forecasted Bankruptcy as an unavoidable outcome, and chose to purchase the company entire and guide it slowly into that bankruptcy rather than allow the company to BK on its own and stand in line with all the other creditors when the court handed out proceeds from the bankruptcy sale.

Ares' plan is simple... institute the hard-line old-school retail playbook and run the company month by month, quarter by quarter, with no long term plans or commitments made... because there is no long term plan aside from collect as much as they can between now and the eventual BK in order to offset the losses from the BK sale. Chances are, they will probably buy it back out of BK.... all other debts will be wiped out, it'll be a clean-slate and yes... the cheaper they buy it back the more they lose on their initial investment, but the cheaper they buy in to any and all future profitability.

As well they should. A bass that experiences significant damage simply from cold weather wasn't properly dried in setup, and is actually defective.......

Oh don't misunderstand, you're exactly correct. However this practice became abusive IMHO. They would send back BADLY shopworn merchandise with no true defects or flaws in workmanship. GC HIGHLY leveraged their position as the buyer of 20,30 even 80% of all of whatever brand's annual production.

I know more than one distributor who's been in rcpt of unsold "Defective Return" merch from GC like amplifiers stripped of their tubes, Basses with Pickups and Preamp removed and replaced with lesser ones or not at all.... hi-end guitars with the hardware completely replaced etc.

*(at one point the journalistic "piling-on" of anti-bain sentiment got so bad, at least one Media Outlet blamed GC / Bain for Fender Music Corp's choice to change direction and not complete a planned IPO. The Journalist in question (journalist, not economist) posited their opinion that "one major reason COULD BE" the fact that at the time GC owed FMC $10M in "Overdue Payments". First, that amounts to less than one MONTH worth purchases from Fender by GC, and the money was not overdue. Fender sends millions of dollars of gear to GC every month, then they bill GC and GC has 30,60, 90 or 120 days to pay depending on terms agreed upon per batch or category.)

 

[madbass6]

good catch ! great point!

 

[guy n. cognito]

Bain is long gone. The current owner is their major creditor Ares Management. For more info see Invalid Link Removed

Bain still has minority ownership and board seats, IIRC

 

[Murdoc_420]

7. The kid making $8 an hour should care, or he should get a different job. Low wages aren't an excuse for poor performance. Customer service is a huge part of your job when you are in sales.

I think it's kind of funny when people expect someone making minimum wage to care so much they are going to fix every problem that some random customer has.

I work at a retail store and if someone has a valid complaint I'll write a note to the boss. SOMETIMES he'll do something about it, sometimes he doesn't feel it is needed. You can't change your business for every 'expert' that walks in the door. But most of the time it's just a sidewalk expert and I nod my head.

If people want workers that really care maybe they need to be less greedy and kick down a better wage. Making below poverty levels doesn't inspire much of anything other than clocking in and out. Obviously GC doesn't care enough to pay qualified experts to work there.

Do you expect that kid to run out and grab a humidifier right then and there? Also it's a corporate environment, mentioning these things to the manager is usually just ends up in being labeled a trouble maker. Low rent managers just do what they are told just like poverty level workers and have no say in the matter.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

IMHO, you'd be hard pressed to find more than one employee at GC that really cares about maintaining the instruments.

My nearest GC insists on leaving their Ampeg SVT amp on standby all day long, so they're constantly having to replace the tubes.
It's never worked in any of the multiple times I have tried to use it.

 

[pablomigraine]

Bain still has minority ownership and board seats, IIRC

Correct and post edited.

 

[Planespotter]

I have a lot of friends who still worked there (and are still there today)during the Bain acquisition and there was a major culture shift within GC.

Bain is no longer the majority shareholder / shot-caller.. The current owner is their major creditor Ares Management. For more info see Invalid Link Removed

As much as people maligned Bain.... most of the impetus behind those criticisms was little more than anticapitalist and classist nonsense, which began as part of an election campaign years ago. (see below*) Nearly all of Bain's involvement had nothing to do with the day-to-day operation of the company... all of the old guard remained in their seats (including the founders etc) and the company was allowed to do as they pleased for the most pair, while Bain managed the Capital Structure of the company etc. The Ares takeover was nothing like that. Mike Pratt, who was hired on as CEO in the years just prior to the takeover, was a visionary who had what was IMHO an excellent and workable plan to return to the company to profitability. (While the company's corp structure allowed them to truthfully state that "each and every store is profitble" and operating in the black... the overall compounding interest put the entire organization in the red. The problem with Mike's plan is that it required more capital than the company had on hand (GC did in fact have unleveraged cash on hand at the time) and would require massive restructuring of corp debt and borrowing more. Ares would not accept the plan, as they forecasted Bankruptcy as an unavoidable outcome, and chose to purchase the company entire and guide it slowly into that bankruptcy rather than allow the company to BK on its own and stand in line with all the other creditors when the court handed out proceeds from the bankruptcy sale.

Ares' plan is simple... institute the hard-line old-school retail playbook and run the company month by month, quarter by quarter, with no long term plans or commitments made... because there is no long term plan aside from collect as much as they can between now and the eventual BK in order to offset the losses from the BK sale. Chances are, they will probably buy it back out of BK.... all other debts will be wiped out, it'll be a clean-slate and yes... the cheaper they buy it back the more they lose on their initial investment, but the cheaper they buy in to any and all future profitability.



Oh don't misunderstand, you're exactly correct. However this practice became abusive IMHO. They would send back BADLY shopworn merchandise with no true defects or flaws in workmanship. GC HIGHLY leveraged their position as the buyer of 20,30 even 80% of all of whatever brand's annual production.

I know more than one distributor who's been in rcpt of unsold "Defective Return" merch from GC like amplifiers stripped of their tubes, Basses with Pickups and Preamp removed and replaced with lesser ones or not at all.... hi-end guitars with the hardware completely replaced etc.

*(at one point the journalistic "piling-on" of anti-bain sentiment got so bad, at least one Media Outlet blamed GC / Bain for Fender Music Corp's choice to change direction and not complete a planned IPO. The Journalist in question (journalist, not economist) posited their opinion that "one major reason COULD BE" the fact that at the time GC owed FMC $10M in "Overdue Payments". First, that amounts to less than one MONTH worth purchases from Fender by GC, and the money was not overdue. Fender sends millions of dollars of gear to GC every month, then they bill GC and GC has 30,60, 90 or 120 days to pay depending on terms agreed upon per batch or category.)

 

[pablomigraine]

I think it's kind of funny when people expect someone making minimum wage to care so much they are going to fix every problem that some random customer has.

I work at a retail store and if someone has a valid complaint I'll write a note to the boss. SOMETIMES he'll do something about it, sometimes he doesn't feel it is needed. You can't change your business for every 'expert' that walks in the door. But most of the time it's just a sidewalk expert and I nod my head.

If people want workers that really care maybe they need to be less greedy and kick down a better wage. Making below poverty levels doesn't inspire much of anything other than clocking in and out. Obviously GC doesn't care enough to pay qualified experts to work there.

Do you expect that kid to run out and grab a humidifier right then and there? Also it's a corporate environment, mentioning these things to the manager is usually just ends up in being labeled a trouble maker. Low rent managers just do what they are told just like poverty level workers and have no say in the matter.

I'll agree with this to a point. The Salaries of GC managers have been dropping steadily over the years. In years past it wasn't uncommon for GC GM's in "average" markets (not like Boston or Lower Manhattan etc) could expect to see salaries anywhere from $60k - $80k year. Most of these folks were laid off since the Ares takeover. I have knowledge of at least one GM being paid as little as $38k / year when the person they replaced was making $63k just the year before. Those that remained from before the Ares takeover have seen their bonus structure razed.

On the other side of that argument.... you cannot BELIEVE how difficult it is to find responsible employees to work at GC. I used to get 30-50 applications a WEEK. Literally every single person who messes with an instrument considers themselves qualified to work there. The job pays next to nothing... in years past there was a legitimate career path available for those who strove for it... a front line salesperson COULD become a store manager in a matter of a few years hard work. From what I understand, the picture is very different now. They have zero incentive to do anything to make sales. This is tempered by the very few truly invested people who work there... and those folks get only the personal satisfaction of having done the right thing for all involved as recompense for their extra effort.

IMHO, you'd be hard pressed to find more than one employee at GC that really cares about maintaining the instruments.

My nearest GC insists on leaving their Ampeg SVT amp on standby all day long, so they're constantly having to replace the tubes.
It's never worked in any of the multiple times I have tried to use it.

That's strange.... they shouldn't be doing that, unless somehow the security system is tied to the same circuit, which may or may not be something under their control...

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I don't humidify my instruments,

I started doing it about a year ago & right away I noticed that it seemed warmer when the humidity was up around 50%, as opposed to below 35%.
That was enough benefit for me to buy into it, because running my heat at a lower setting more than makes up for the electricity the humidifier uses.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

That's strange.... they shouldn't be doing that, unless somehow the security system is tied to the same circuit, which may or may not be something under their control...

I've been in there when they first open the store, and one of the first tasks is going around & turning on all the amps. I thought it was pretty strange.

 

[Blister]

I'm also from MN and was in Guitar Center today to get a stand - I always look and sometimes try the few basses they have - They had a few high end Jazz basses but mostly cheaper 300 dollar ones with very bad setups and buzzing - I remember when they used to have some very nice Warwick German basses - I'm always monitoring my humidity levels at my place - Not only can instruments get damage but the whole structure of my home

 

[superdick2112]

Bain still has minority ownership and board seats, IIRC

Just read that. Yep, not the Bane I was picturing....

But I bet he wouldnt tolerate any fret sprout under his watch...

 

[Double E]

Where I said that you'd be "hard pressed?" Technically i was pointing to a lack of evidence for mellows point, not inferring I had evidence of that negative.

Here is the post he was trying to hold your feet to the fire over:

Extremes? Like assuming fret sprout is "sudden" and linked to "significant damage" despite evidence to the contrary?

 

[bobba66]

Pretty sure it's part of a world wide plot to drive all bass players into the Cult of Fretless Fingerboards.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

Im thinking of all those guitars drying up and getting fret sprout and that employee that doesn't care and there is no way i am sleeping tonight.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Personally, I'd rather they didn't humidify the store to keep fret sprout down. I'm going to play the bass "out there" and it's better to see how much fret sprout it's going to have. A little sprout? No worries, I'll fix that once and it's good to go. I once saw a bass with 1/16" or more of sprout and I knew that was a bass to avoid. It likely was built from wood that was too green.

 

[I am Soma]

This thread had a little bit of everything I like about talkbass