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Double Bass Shen Owner's Club
- Thread starter Skabasskid
- Start date
I've been waiting for a while now ... number please? I'm respecting the club rules by not giving myself my own number ..
My new Shen hybrid is kind of quiet. It has Zyex strings on it and I requested that they be as low as possible when I bought it so that it would be easier to play initially. After a few days of that I raised the strings by two turns of the adjusters. Interestingly, it was not much harder to play. Just a little bit. I could not really tell in my small apartment if it was louder, it sounds pretty good by itself in that space either way but if I try to play along with a recording it is hard to hear even when the recording volume is moderate. A couple of weeks later I lowered the strings all the way again and then went to a lesson with a local teacher. In his teaching space, which is larger than any of my individual rooms and carpeted, my bass sounded stringy and weak. Anemic he said. So I came home and raised the strings again by three turns. Still playable. I can't tell anything in my apartment concerning volume so I'll have to see next time I go back to that space if it makes a difference. I expect that it will and I also expect that working on technique and getting a good sound will help too.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I really hope this bass opens up through setup, playing, and me getting better because I spent a nice chunk on it.
Also, how many turns I can get out of the typical bridge adjusters before they come out of the threads or fold over from stress?
Is it conceivable that I could raise the strings a couple of more turns and get better sound and still maintain playability?
Thanks,
Ernie
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I really hope this bass opens up through setup, playing, and me getting better because I spent a nice chunk on it.
Also, how many turns I can get out of the typical bridge adjusters before they come out of the threads or fold over from stress?
Is it conceivable that I could raise the strings a couple of more turns and get better sound and still maintain playability?
Thanks,
Ernie
I've got the same model bass and at one point had Zyex on it. I wouldn't say there was ever any issue of volume, but on the other hand, I had my bass set up for sound, not playability. There's also an issue of technique. You'll probably find as you progress that your sound gets better and that's largely on account of a technique that's geared more towards pulling a good sound. I also find that the zyex actually gets more playable as I raise it up (to a certain extent) just because I have a hard time dealing with the low tension.
Good luck. The SB-150 is a pretty damn good bass and I doubt you've got a dud on your hands.
Ernie, do you bow?
My 150, which I brought home a couple of weekends ago, hasn't been super loud pizzicato with the D'Addario Preludes, Thomastik Bel Cantos or Pirastro Flexocors that I've had on it so far. I will be changing to Spirocores soon in search of more pizz volume.
However, under the bow, my bass gets quite loud. Almost as loud as my ancient Juzek, which is strung with Spiros and is a Hemi when played arco. The Shen doesn't go as deep, but that could be a function of age and string choice. We'll see.
I also don't hear much difference in response at different string heights. I got sick of tweaking it and adjusted the bridge all the way down, which seems to improve the tone at the expense of some volume. But like Tommy said, as your technique develops you will learn to pull the maximum sound out of the instrument.
Because your bass is still new and fairly sleepy, you will have to wake it up. The most effective trick I've found to speed the breaking-in period is to bow long tones on the open strings (like, minutes at a time. Drives wives crazy.) as loud as you can.
You could also alternate between bowing perfect fifths (i.e. open E, B on the A string) with flat fifths (open E, Ab on the B string). These clashing notes get the top moving like crazy and helps the wood realize that it's now a musical instrument.
As far as the adjusters are concerned, I have been told that bridges are generally set up so that the adjusters can be raised up to 1/4". My luthier told me that when he cuts a bridge, he sets the adjusters so that three turns of the screw are visible when the string heights are 7mm on the G and 10mm on the E. I didn't think to ask him why.
My 150, which I brought home a couple of weekends ago, hasn't been super loud pizzicato with the D'Addario Preludes, Thomastik Bel Cantos or Pirastro Flexocors that I've had on it so far. I will be changing to Spirocores soon in search of more pizz volume.
However, under the bow, my bass gets quite loud. Almost as loud as my ancient Juzek, which is strung with Spiros and is a Hemi when played arco. The Shen doesn't go as deep, but that could be a function of age and string choice. We'll see.
I also don't hear much difference in response at different string heights. I got sick of tweaking it and adjusted the bridge all the way down, which seems to improve the tone at the expense of some volume. But like Tommy said, as your technique develops you will learn to pull the maximum sound out of the instrument.
Because your bass is still new and fairly sleepy, you will have to wake it up. The most effective trick I've found to speed the breaking-in period is to bow long tones on the open strings (like, minutes at a time. Drives wives crazy.) as loud as you can.
You could also alternate between bowing perfect fifths (i.e. open E, B on the A string) with flat fifths (open E, Ab on the B string). These clashing notes get the top moving like crazy and helps the wood realize that it's now a musical instrument.
As far as the adjusters are concerned, I have been told that bridges are generally set up so that the adjusters can be raised up to 1/4". My luthier told me that when he cuts a bridge, he sets the adjusters so that three turns of the screw are visible when the string heights are 7mm on the G and 10mm on the E. I didn't think to ask him why.
Yes I do bow. I've been meaning to do some daily long bows for that purpose. Just been caught up in Walking Bassics. Is 7 and 10mm a standard/average string height? Where is it measured from the halfway point? Is the 1/4" the gap in the bridge?
Thanks for the responses. I am not too worried about it. I know that my technique needs some work. I'll start bowing some long tones daily too.
Ah well I am finding some discussion in other threads about this so......It is amusing to me that every question I have had in the past few weeks has already been asked and discussed at length somewhere on TB. I joked to a buddy that I'll never get to participate in the forums because all of my questions have been answered.
ernie
Thanks for the responses. I am not too worried about it. I know that my technique needs some work. I'll start bowing some long tones daily too.
Ah well I am finding some discussion in other threads about this so......It is amusing to me that every question I have had in the past few weeks has already been asked and discussed at length somewhere on TB. I joked to a buddy that I'll never get to participate in the forums because all of my questions have been answered.
ernie
I don't think than raising the string too much past that point will do any good. Or at least, it wouldn't change the sound from "anemic" to "rich in vitamins".
Some things to consider:
- Your bass will open up (KungFu gave you excellent advice).
- If your strings are new, they will break in and give your more low frequencies eventually.
- Your technique will improve, put some meat on those strings (both hands).
- Play while facing a corner, you'll see that your bass is louder than you think!
The only times I change the string height is when I got too much fingerboard noise (when strings can't vibrate freely during normal play). I keep it fairly low on my Shen and never had volume issues. Give it time and I'm sure you'll get there!
Some things to consider:
- Your bass will open up (KungFu gave you excellent advice).
- If your strings are new, they will break in and give your more low frequencies eventually.
- Your technique will improve, put some meat on those strings (both hands).
- Play while facing a corner, you'll see that your bass is louder than you think!
The only times I change the string height is when I got too much fingerboard noise (when strings can't vibrate freely during normal play). I keep it fairly low on my Shen and never had volume issues. Give it time and I'm sure you'll get there!
7-10 is a good place to start with steel or synthetic strings. As Mike said, he likes his strings lower. I've got strong farmboy hands and pull pretty hard, so I like mine higher.
The 1/4" gap I referred to is between the bridge adjuster and bridge feet; i.e. you can see 1/4" of exposed thread between them. While raising the strings relative to the table increases pressure on the table, and in theory produces more sound, I've found that jacking up an adjustable bridge actually loses fundamental and low frequencies. I don't think aluminum bolts transmit vibration as well as maple does.
Can you describe your plucking technique? What I mean is, are you using the tip of your finger like a bass guitar? The pad? The side? As adagio said, more meat on the string = more tone. Where along the length of the string you are plucking it also makes a big difference.
I've read that jazzers use the pad or the side of their finger and push the string down toward the top before releasing it.
What I generally do for maximum sound is to grab the string with the side of my index finger from the tip to the second knuckle. I pull the string perpendicular to the fingerboard.
Brace your thumb against the side of the fingerboard.
I usually pluck a palm's length from the end of the board.
Plucking further toward the bridge is stringier and thinner but has better definition; further toward the scroll is generally warmer and boomier.
I am going to measure string height when I get home. I pluck by hooking my finger at the knuckle about two inches above the end of the fingerboard laying the rest of my finger, to the tip, down along the string and pulling perp to the FB into the lower string. Sounds like that is the way you do it. But I am working on this and am not comfortable with it yet and not comfortable using the weight of my arm to pull the string and produce a note. So that is a factor.
Thanks for all the info. I think I am doing okay it will just take time and playing both for myself and the bass.
Ernie
Thanks for all the info. I think I am doing okay it will just take time and playing both for myself and the bass.
Ernie
Sounds like combination of new bass, new strings, and new player. Give the bass and yourself some time and things should open up. Of course, the more arco you do the faster the bass will open up as well.
Remember as the player you are in the worst position to hear the bass.
Remember as the player you are in the worst position to hear the bass.
+1 on pulling the string down into the fingerboard. Does your finger hit the fingerboard when you pizz.? Likely it does... if so, then you're really pulling down toward the board too.
Yes my finger does hit the fingerboard. I hook my finger on the string at the second knuckle and pull using the weight of my arm down and towards the lower string. My finger ends up on the lower string. Reset!!!......Pluck!!!!!
I just turned the adjusters another full turn so the strings are 9 and 7 mm from the end of the fingerboard and the gap in the bridge is exactly 1/4". I realize it does not need to be exactly 1/4" it just worked out that way. I think it may sound a little better but I don't know it would be subtle. I'll probably experiment with it some.
So I'll keep playing, working on technique, and definitely bowing long tones.
Thanks for all the feedback.
Ernie
I just turned the adjusters another full turn so the strings are 9 and 7 mm from the end of the fingerboard and the gap in the bridge is exactly 1/4". I realize it does not need to be exactly 1/4" it just worked out that way. I think it may sound a little better but I don't know it would be subtle. I'll probably experiment with it some.
So I'll keep playing, working on technique, and definitely bowing long tones.
Thanks for all the feedback.
Ernie
Wait a minute -- your adjusters are cranked 1/4" above the bridge feet, and your G string is 7mm above the end of the fingerboard? That sounds wrong, like the shop screwed up cutting the curve into the top of the bridge and just re-cut it lower, or something. Can you post a photo?
