Short scale 5 string Bridge Positioning

[Logic_11]

I have an Ibanez Mikro 5 string and I was trying to intonate it, but the saddles for the B and E strings are all the way back and won't move back anymore. I was wondering what my options were for fixing this.

I have a few thoughts: Move the bridge back, get different saddles, or just get a new bridge altogether. Which route would you guys recommend taking or do you have any other suggestions? Thanks for all your help, here's a pic to show what the saddles look like:

Edit: I'm using the original factory strings and the scale length is 28.6

 

[dwizum]

Are the action and relief set appropriately?

Are the rest of the strings intonated correctly? Strange for the D saddle to be ahead of the G saddle.

Are these brand new strings? Have you set witness points on the strings? Not doing so can make intonation difficult, especially on thicker strings.

Have you measured the 28.6" length from the fingerboard side of the nut, to see where the bridge actually lands? That can be a good gut check that you didn't end up with a misplaced bridge.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Did you set the witness points on the strings? That can make a huge difference in where they want to intonate, especially the thicker strings.

One thread. There are a number of others if you search witness points in the Hardware, setup and repair forum.

WITNESS POINTS DEMYSTIFIED.

At worst, it won't cost anything to try.

 

[Beej]

I've seen pics of Hipshot Kickasses installed on Mikros to help this problem. I'm guessing this is an older Mikro? You could also make your own replacement bridge a little longer than the stock one - @dwizum has done it and posted up examples recently.

Also, @MPU has done it here: MPUstang build

 

[Logic_11]

Are the action and relief set appropriately?

Are the rest of the strings intonated correctly? Strange for the D saddle to be ahead of the G saddle.

Are these brand new strings? Have you set witness points on the strings? Not doing so can make intonation difficult, especially on thicker strings.

Have you measured the 28.6" length from the fingerboard side of the nut, to see where the bridge actually lands? That can be a good gut check that you didn't end up with a misplaced bridge.

Yeah the rest of the strings are intonated correctly, I also found it strange that the g saddle is behind the D saddle, but I've had this bass before and I think it was similar with the bass too.

They are like 2 weeks old with about 30 -40 hours of play on them. What is witness point? I bought the bass used, but I got the "Mikro 5 string" bass strings lol, so im pretty sure the strings were made for this specific model. Ive done setups on all of my other basses, but this is the first time ive ran into this /:

When I measure the 28.6 inches with a tape measure, it looks like the bridge was placed at an acceptable place. Here's a pic:

 

[Logic_11]

Did you set the witness points on the strings? That can make a huge difference in where they want to intonate, especially the thicker strings.

One thread. There are a number of others if you search witness points in the Hardware, setup and repair forum.

WITNESS POINTS DEMYSTIFIED.

At worst, it won't cost anything to try.

I have not set the witness points on the strings, I'll check it out right now

 

[Logic_11]

I've seen pics of Hipshot Kickasses installed on Mikros to help this problem. I'm guessing this is an older Mikro? You could also make your own replacement bridge a little longer than the stock one - @dwizum has done it and posted up examples recently.

Also, @MPU has done it here: MPUstang build

I actually looked up this bridge, but I found out that the string spacing for those hipshot bridges is 19mm and I prefer tighter string spacing. The mikro bridge is 16.5mm, which is more comfortable for me since im used to tighter spacing.

Wow, @MPU really did do a good job, but I dont think I have the right tools to drill through steel lol. I also feel like I might hurt myself if I tried doing that lol. I think getting one already made is the best option for me

 

[Logic_11]

Did you set the witness points on the strings? That can make a huge difference in where they want to intonate, especially the thicker strings.

One thread. There are a number of others if you search witness points in the Hardware, setup and repair forum.

WITNESS POINTS DEMYSTIFIED.

At worst, it won't cost anything to try.

I looked at the thread and I found out what witness points are, I didn't even know that that was a thing! When I got the bass, I did file the nut a little, but I didn't use a file because I didn't have one. Instead I just wrapped a L key with some sandpaper lol. I just needed to sand it down a tiny little bit. I would have to buy appropriate files to get the witness points correct, which may cost me about $100. I think ima try to save up and order a set, hopefully that helps with the intonation.

I'm not sure if the strings are considered heavy, the packaging says " .045 / .065 / .085 / .105 / .130" , but its pretty difficult to find strings for this bass since it has a really short scale

 

[Matt Liebenau]

While the nut slot width and height needs to be correct that's not so much what witness points are about. The short version is that you want to firmly press the the string down on each side of the bridge saddle, nut slot and where the string begins to wind around the tuner post. The goal is to have a nice, sharp bend over the saddle and not a long, lazy curve. Also, if you move the saddle to correct the intonation you'll want to reset that point. That's one reason why, if I'm starting from scratch, I like to have the saddles further back then they probably need to be so that the "kink" from the witness point doesn't end up in the speaking length of the string if you need to pull the saddle back away from the neck.

The nut slots may need to be adjusted if they haven't already been because the strings you are using are significantly larger then the originals. A set of nut files is ideal but there are work arounds. Going carefully with a round needle file can work. Another option is to figure out what letter or number size drill bit is a few thousands smaller then your string size, wrap some sandpaper around the solid shank part and use that to make the slots larger. Also note that you want to start by making the slots larger and not necessarily deeper. One the string is fitted correctly then look at the height. There can be a pretty fine, just a couple of sanding strokes, line between perfect and "dang it!" so work carefully and, as the woodworking shows say, "Sneak up on it."

 

[dwizum]

Yeah the rest of the strings are intonated correctly, I also found it strange that the g saddle is behind the D saddle, but I've had this bass before and I think it was similar with the bass too.

They are like 2 weeks old with about 30 -40 hours of play on them. What is witness point? I bought the bass used, but I got the "Mikro 5 string" bass strings lol, so im pretty sure the strings were made for this specific model. Ive done setups on all of my other basses, but this is the first time ive ran into this /:

When I measure the 28.6 inches with a tape measure, it looks like the bridge was placed at an acceptable place. Here's a pic:

View attachment 4521841

That bridge is too far forwards. The nominal scale length (your 28.6" mark) should land right at the very farthest forward end of the saddle adjustment range, or maybe at most 1/8" behind the forward-most end of the range. Granted, this "too far forwards" positioning is somewhat typical on a lot of basses, but that's a shame, because it creates the problems you're having now.

I would guess that once you've adjusted the rest of the setup and set the witness points well, your problem may resolve. If not, personally I would probably replace the bridge, since moving that one back will probably mean the screw holes for the forwards screws will show.

You mentioned hipshot bridges having 19mm spacing - they sell bridges in a handful of configurations with different spacings, and many of their bridges are adjustable over a several-mm range, so you should be able to get something with the spacing you want. I have one of their bridges on a 5 string at 17mm which isn't far off the 16.5mm you want.

 

[Beej]

Mikros have 19mm bridge spacing, which is a reason they are so popular - are you sure that's 16.5mm?

 

[Logic_11]

Mikros have 19mm bridge spacing, which is a reason they are so popular - are you sure that's 16.5mm?

I think its 16.5mm or somewhere between 16-16.5mm. This is how I measured it. I'm not sure if this is the right way to measure it. I think I'm going try to get a new bridge piece with a longer range and at a better position

 

[Logic_11]

That bridge is too far forwards. The nominal scale length (your 28.6" mark) should land right at the very farthest forward end of the saddle adjustment range, or maybe at most 1/8" behind the forward-most end of the range. Granted, this "too far forwards" positioning is somewhat typical on a lot of basses, but that's a shame, because it creates the problems you're having now.

I would guess that once you've adjusted the rest of the setup and set the witness points well, your problem may resolve. If not, personally I would probably replace the bridge, since moving that one back will probably mean the screw holes for the forwards screws will show.

You mentioned hipshot bridges having 19mm spacing - they sell bridges in a handful of configurations with different spacings, and many of their bridges are adjustable over a several-mm range, so you should be able to get something with the spacing you want. I have one of their bridges on a 5 string at 17mm which isn't far off the 16.5mm you want.

I think I'm going to try to replace the bridge piece. Do you think that any bridge between the 16 and 17 mm spacing would work? I feel like 18 would push the strings off the edge too much.
Do you still have the link for the 17 mm hipshot bridge you ordered by any chance?

 

[Beej]

I think its 16.5mm or somewhere between 16-16.5mm. This is how I measured it. I'm not sure if this is the right way to measure it. I think I'm going try to get a new bridge piece with a longer range and at a better position

View attachment 4529493

Oh yeah, 5 stringer, my bad. Whoops

 

[dwizum]

I think I'm going to try to replace the bridge piece. Do you think that any bridge between the 16 and 17 mm spacing would work? I feel like 18 would push the strings off the edge too much.
Do you still have the link for the 17 mm hipshot bridge you ordered by any chance?

Hipshot make lots of bridges in lots of spacings. Here's their A style, which comes in 16.5 - 20 mm options:

https://hipshotproducts.com/collections/bass-bridges/products/5-string-a-style-bass-bridge

 

[iiipopes]

As discussed above, the bridge needs moving back. Take the bridge off the instrument. Fill the holes with the usual drilling out and gluing in hardwood dowel pieces. Put the G string saddle at the forward point of its grooves. Measure the scale length from the fret board side of the nut (double the distance you measure to the 12th fret). Set the bridge so the point of the G saddle is about 1/16 to 1/8 inch more than the scale length towards the heel. Mark the mounting holes, drill and mount bridge. I have had to do this on a number of basses, including basses that I replaced the bridge with another model. One item: I hope you kept the springs on the intonation screws. You do need to clip the springs and put at least a little bit of one on each intonation screw once you get the bridge remounted in the correct place so the spring will keep the saddle where it needs to be. I had to to that on my Ibby bridge, including shaving the intonation screw down in length so I could get the B string saddle far enough back.

 

[sissy kathy]

I think its 16.5mm or somewhere between 16-16.5mm. This is how I measured it. I'm not sure if this is the right way to measure it. I think I'm going try to get a new bridge piece with a longer range and at a better position

View attachment 4529493

If you measure across the B and E string your measurement will be different. If you are going to measure the spacing that way then measure across all five strings and then divide by four. That will be more accurate.