Short scale 5er

[Jisch]

I just picked up a commission for a five string short scale (30"), repeat customer, gotta love that!

Schaller hardware, single EMG pickup, bolt on neck with a zero fret, maple fretboard. I still need to pick out body woods, but probably some combination of walnut, cherry and maple.

Customer wants something akin to this Mensinger Cazpar 5 for a body shape. I'll take initial measurements off this pic, but the end result will be different, for sure. I told him I won't do a headstock like that where the strings actually touch the tuning post, I just can't.

 

[RichterScale]

I won't do a headstock like that where the strings actually touch the tuning post, I just can't.

Agreed. Im sure it doesn't cause any issues that affect anything important, but it just seems wrong.

 

[Max Bogosity]

Nice. I'm with you on the headstock too. It's unnecessary and unattractive.

Low B or high C?

 

[Jisch]

Nice. I'm with you on the headstock too. It's unnecessary and unattractive.

Low B or high C?

Low B (but wow, that's my assumption, I never thought about it, I need to check on that!).

 

[Jisch]

This may be something that everyone knows already, but here's how I scale up a picture to get basic measurements for a bass. I want to be clear I'm not copying this bass curve for curve, but this is pretty typical of how I get the proportions right and so I know what my cut list looks like for the body.

I used Keynote in my mac to do this, but you can do it in any presentation software (Powerpoint, Google). I start with a known measurement - the scale length of 30" is a good place to start. Draw a line in the software from the zero fret to the string saddle - that line is 18.86" long according to Keynote. Divide 30 by 18.86 and the conversion factor for this drawing is 1.59 - so anything I want to measure I draw a line and multiply the result by 1.59 to get the actual measurement. And yes there is parallax and these numbers are not 100% accurate, but they get me in the ballpark.

I'll draw this out as a guide, once I get the rough cut done I'll pretty much ignore the drawing/dimensions and start finalizing the shape according to what I think it should look like.

 

[Snert]

This may be something that everyone knows already

I thought it would go something along these lines, but I've not done it myself yet so it was a nice check for me. Thanks.

Did you find out if it's E-C or B-G yet?

 

[Jisch]

I thought it would go something along these lines, but I've not done it myself yet so it was a nice check for me. Thanks.

Did you find out if it's E-C or B-G yet?

I'm checking this morning. It won't matter for my build process, just for the string set and set up, which is months away.

 

[Jisch]

Confirmed BEADG - everyone can relax

 

[Jisch]

I walked through the shop on the way to get a coffee and found this sapele top - I'll pair this with a walnut back. If I recall correctly this was a cutoff from when I was resawing some sapele for another instrument. It's awesome wood with nice prismatic effect.

 

[Jisch]

I had a little dilemma with the truss rod - a "standard" bass one was too long, a long (480mm) guitar one would probably work, but was a little short. I had a friend weld a bass truss rod a bit, I'll cut off the end and this one will be the perfect length. Can I charge extra for a custom truss rod? It cost me an oak bowl.

 

[Jisch]

I'll take the flag for illegal use of tools. Rather than pull out the router sled, I used the CNC to thickness the neck blank, next I'll flip it over and do the truss rod slot.

 

[Jisch]

I got the truss rod channel cut at lunch, a small bit of resistance in the transition between the adjuster and the rest of the rod, I'll get that fixed up. This one will have the adjuster down by the body. I've got to make a better way to attach the vacuum to the CNC, I need to hold the hose over top of the machine instead of off to the side like it is now, it popped off mid cut and left a mess of sawdust.

 

[Jisch]

does anyone have experience with strings for a low B on a short scale? Specifically flat wounds - any recommendations welcomed.

 

[Jon Clegg]

does anyone have experience with strings for a low B on a short scale? Specifically flat wounds - any recommendations welcomed.

@JIO built a short scale 5, he may have some insights.

 

[Jisch]

I saw one out there by @turindev too - how did those Hi Beams work out for the B?

 

[TerribleTim68]

Several comments, let's go over things one at time so I can get caught up!

This may be something that everyone knows already, but here's how I scale up a picture to get basic measurements for a bass. I want to be clear I'm not copying this bass curve for curve, but this is pretty typical of how I get the proportions right and so I know what my cut list looks like for the body.
View attachment 4637668
I used Keynote in my mac to do this, but you can do it in any presentation software (Powerpoint, Google). I start with a known measurement - the scale length of 30" is a good place to start. Draw a line in the software from the zero fret to the string saddle - that line is 18.86" long according to Keynote. Divide 30 by 18.86 and the conversion factor for this drawing is 1.59 - so anything I want to measure I draw a line and multiply the result by 1.59 to get the actual measurement. And yes there is parallax and these numbers are not 100% accurate, but they get me in the ballpark.

I'll draw this out as a guide, once I get the rough cut done I'll pretty much ignore the drawing/dimensions and start finalizing the shape according to what I think it should look like.

This is basically the same way I do it. I put the image in AutoCAD (cause that's what I have access to thru my day job) and then scale it based on the scale length from nut to bridge. If you know the scale length and the photo shows those two items clearly, you're good!

I'll take the flag for illegal use of tools. Rather than pull out the router sled, I used the CNC to thickness the neck blank, next I'll flip it over and do the truss rod slot.
View attachment 4638956

I'm so jelly of your CNC.

does anyone have experience with strings for a low B on a short scale? Specifically flat wounds - any recommendations welcomed.

So, the Ibanez Mikro is a 28.5 scale length and it comes in 5 string versions (BEADG). You could take a look at winding length and compare, maybe they would work on a 30" scale depending on length to tuner posts. Also, you could always look through the Mikro Club thread, I swear someone asks about strings every other day.

Always love your builds Jisch!

 

[Beej]

does anyone have experience with strings for a low B on a short scale? Specifically flat wounds - any recommendations welcomed.

I really want to know this too. I've built a schwack of 5 string 32" basses and I'm only borderline satisfied with the B string on them. I think it's my own pickiness as a very long time 5 string player (pretty much exclusively since 1997) so I'm familiar with what a 34" B string does, along with generally inherent overtones, fret feel and required touch. Others who have played them have raved about the "quality" of the B string on my 32s, so that's why I think it's mostly me. Then again, Canadians tend to be overly polite and friendly, so it could all have been BS to protect my feelings.

I'm working on a couple of short scale designs and have shied away from a low B for this reason. I'm concerned about not getting the right tone out of the B. I've spent time and energy trying a variety of strings on them and have found a pretty big B string tends to help with this, but I'd like to see what happens here.

It sounds like Chris Kuffner of A Great Big World is quite happy with the B on his @JIO built shorty 5: lightweight short-scale 5'r And it sure sounds good.

Curious as to what folks think would contribute to a solid B on a short scale (my own design is a 31" scale). And I'm quite interested to see how this one turns out! Nothing like a @Jisch build to watch beauty happen quickly.

 

[TerribleTim68]

.... Then again, Canadians tend to be overly polite and friendly, so it could all have been BS to protect my feelings. ...

Did they bring you poutine? No poutine, it was BS. Poutine, they were serious.

 

[Jisch]

I went "shopping" up in the attic and found an appropriate piece of walnut for the back. Like most of my wood it started out rough cut. I put it in the router sled so it's cupped upwards and planed that side down, then I ran it through the sanding planer to make both sides parallel. I started with a piece that was just under 2" thick and ended up with two pieces that are a bit more than 1.3" thick. I didn't plan that, but with the sapele top that's just about .2" thick, this gets me right to 1.5", which is what I was aiming for. More amazing than that is that I worked each piece individually (which I never do) and ended up with both being the same thickness. Now it's a matter of making it fit. These pieces are about 7.5" wide and I need 6.5" on each side (about) to make this work. It seems like plenty of room, but by the time you make them straight it's really not. I had to work carefully.

Initially I was thinking of putting a strip of sap wood in the middle, I have a bass I did this on and it looks cool.

But by the time I got the sides straight I had different amounts of sap wood left on both sides and no way to fix it and keep an appropriate width. I started flipping things around and came up with this. It should look cool. And yeah I know those horns are too thin. I'll cut big and form them after I get a better picture of how things look.

 

[Jisch]

(oops posted to the wrong thread earlier today).
I got the headstock cut and thinned down. I cut it on the bandsaw then used the oscillating drum sander to bring it in, then used a sanding block to make it flat. After that I cut the back side with the bandsaw then clamped a block to the top of the sander and pushed it through to get the right thickness. I've only just started to use this method of "planing" the headstock it's kind of surprising how well it works. I had to flatten it off a bit with a sanding block.

Next I drilled out for the truss rod access, I'll route a channel for the hex wrench. CNC accuracy on the truss rode channel, all good.

I pulled the body out of the clamps, looks good. I had this backwards last night, gotta remember that I want the BACK to be the good side here. whew.

Next I guess I'll switch over to working on the fretboard, I'm going to try and do blind fret slots with the CNC, it shouldn't be too hard. The guy commissioning this is buying all the hardware/electronics and I don't have any of it here yet. I feel much better working with real stuff than engineering drawings, but I should be able to get the fretboard done, if not the taper on the neck blank.