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Double Bass Should I Buy This Kay?

R

ragiii

Oct 5, 2022
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#1
Hey y'all,
First and foremost, I'm a newer member on this website, and this is my first post, so if I'm not doing something right, I'd appreciate any words of advice!

On to the point, I've been looking to buy my first upright after having rented one for a good number of months. The store I had been renting from, however, only provides rentals, and doesn't sell, so I've kind of been looking all over the place online for the past couple of months. I've done a decent amount of research on brands, and pretty much everything that has to do with buying one of these instruments, and long story short, I've found this 1961 Kay C-1 for the nice price of $1,800. Upon examining the pictures, it becomes pretty apparent why the price isn't quite as steep.

As I said, I'm not very experienced in this area, but I can tell from the multiple neck repairs, the bolt on the neck, and the overall wear, it's definitely seem better days, and I'm trying to consider whether or not I should even drive an hour to go try it. Just by looks alone, it seems as though it'd develop even more problems with age. What do y'all think? Is it REALLY worth $1,800, let alone the hour drive it'd be to go try it out??

Thank y'all in advance :)
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#4
overit said:
Pass on the Kay - but if that's the closest place for you to try basses and there are more in your price range there, I'd make the drive to get some hands on some different basses. There's only so much online research can tell you.
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I was thinking I might do that. The same shop also has a pretty decent looking Engelhardt, similar to the one I had been renting, and it's probably roughly around the same price (I'm waiting for the seller to reveal his price). Thanks for the quick reply!
 
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#7
OP, what area of the globe are you in? Kays and Engels can be great pizz work horses, I gig on mine almost exclusively, but there are some things to watch for - first thing is the neck joint, they very often fail and require some experienced luthiery to remedy. That one looks like it suffered several attempted backyard repairs, don't know why they didn't remove the fingerboard since it looks like it wants to pop off that bass as is, anyway.. Missing outer linings maybe not a dealbreaker, but watch for sunken tops too. If you want to play arco in any kind of serious way and only plan to have one bass, I'd recommend to wait for something with a solid/carved top. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong here, hivemind), essentially any bass with a solid top will have a neck joint superior to an American ply, even if it doesn't look as cool.
 
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#9
Thank you all for your replies and advice! Indeed, it is from FMI I had pretty much made up my mind to pass on it from the beginning, but wanted to see what some more knowledgeable folk would think about it. I'm well aware of the Kay/Engelhardt repution from many an old thread, however, I played an Engelhardt for a good number of months and it worked well for what I needed it for (a little jazz; a little folk/bluegrass). Thank y'all again for your knowledge/advice!
 
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#13
Oh good heavens, it is surprising a reputable shop would even put a price on an instrument in that condition. I do not think I would take that for free.

Re: Engles, I was just cleaning the guts on mine. Taking it to a camp this weekend instead of my Upton hybrid. When I was done with the strings, I just thumped out a few notes. I didn't realize I still had it facing the corner - it freaking blew me away! :D

A lotta people like to hate on them, but I've got ZERO qualms about bringing this axe. One of the fun things about such camps is the ability to try other basses. I'll let you know if I run across any I like better.
 
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#16
ragiii said:
I played an Engelhardt for a good number of months and it worked well for what I needed it for (a little jazz; a little folk/bluegrass). Thank y'all again for your knowledge/advice!
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I'd try some other basses, if you are not hung up on buying American, there are a lot of better, cheaper options for plys out there. It isn't that Engels don't work, it is that they are heavy and overbuilt and overpriced for what they are. The only real reason to play one is if you have one or get a great deal. As far as Kay, for years I said I had never experienced the mythical Kay that sound great, at this point I've played a couple that sound good. Both are durable for your needs, especially if there is a ton of outdoor playing you need to do. A Shen or eastern European ply might perform better and you get more bass for your money.
Many of us with carved basses like to say we bring our basses everywhere we play and we do. If our work was primarily outdoors or even half outdoors we'd have a ply for that.
 
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#17
damonsmith said:
...It isn't that Engels don't work, it is that they are heavy and overbuilt and overpriced for what they are. The only real reason to play one is if you have one or get a great deal. ...
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This site is GREAT in that it allows various people to express diverse opinions. Hopefully readers take them for no more than that, and use all available information to form their own opinions.
 
#18
Ed S said:
This site is GREAT in that it allows various people to express diverse opinions. Hopefully readers take them for no more than that, and use all available information to form their own opinions.
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Hopefully, people check profiles, and can figure out the differences between teachers and pros who have experienced not only what they can do with various basses but how they perform with students and which basses ultimately hold students back.
Hopefully they can also understand the difference between what someone owns and loves and what is the best instrument they can get right now for their money.
Even you have a hybrid as well as your Engel. There is no world where someone with 2K or more spend on their first and only bass is going to best served by an Engelhardt in today's market.
This is a measured, professional opinion is in no way an insult to the bass you own and love.
 
#19
damonsmith said:
Even you have a hybrid as well as your Engel. There is no world where someone with 2K or more spend on their first and only bass is going to best served by an Engelhardt in today's market.
This is a measured, professional opinion is in no way an insult to the bass you own and love.
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Fair enough. But when they can be had regularly for closer to $1k... ;)

I know where you are coming from. Like I said, I'm eager to check out my fellow campers' - and instructors' - basses over the weekend to see what could be better for my purposes.
 
#20
Ed S said:
Fair enough. But when they can be had regularly for closer to $1k... ;)

I know where you are coming from. Like I said, I'm eager to check out my fellow campers' - and instructors' - basses over the weekend to see what could be better for my purposes.
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Your Engel is likely great for that purpose, since you have it there is no reason to worry about it. An old Kay that is nice and dry or a New Standard you likely make you happier but in no way I am suggesting that someone with a functioning Engel replace it with Shen ply. An Engel under a grand for an outdoor bass is a solid enough deal, I'll give you that.
 

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