Sidewinder distorting

[BBQV]

I've got a 2x15" cab with Sidewinder speakers. One of them is distorting from low volume levels. It "works" but sounds really nasty.
Sometimes it measures 8 ohms, sometimes 0.

Can this be fixed or should I get a replacement?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Sidewinders are guitar drivers; chances are the cab is a guitar cab.

 

[BBQV]

A 15" 250 watt guitar speaker?

The Marshall IBS cabinets, specifically made for bass, were loaded with Sidewinders.
Multi purpose speakers?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

A 15" 250 watt guitar speaker?

The EVM15L and the JBL E130 were 300 watt guitar speakers. What little information exists on Sidewinders says that they were created to compete with EVM guitar speakers.

The Marshall IBS cabinets, specifically made for bass,

Perhaps, but Marshall has never been known for choosing the best drivers for bass. I could offer better advice if Celestion had T/S specs for the Sidewinders, but AFAIK they don't.

 

[BBQV]

OK, thanks.

But never the less, one of the two distorts at very low levels and the other one doesn't. Can I fix this problem somehow?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

OK, thanks.

But never the less, one of the two distorts at very low levels and the other one doesn't. Can I fix this problem somehow?

Possibly with a recone, if parts are available, but I wouldn't spend the money on a recone if it's actually a guitar driver.

 

[mpdd]

my sidewinder loaded ibs 115 couldn't handle all the bass put out by my grabber and sunn 2000s(speaker jumping), neither could it with a d180 and the cab loaded with a black widow(boom city), try less bass on your head and turn the tone up on your bass

one of the guys at low down sound informed me that the marshall cabs were actually too shallow and they had trouble handling all the low end, this seems reasonable, because my orange obc115 lacks the mud and the boom of the marshall ibs cab

 

[Clammy]

The EVM15L and the JBL E130 were 300 watt guitar speakers. What little information exists on Sidewinders says that they were created to compete with EVM guitar speakers.

Perhaps, but Marshall has never been known for choosing the best drivers for bass. I could offer better advice if Celestion had T/S specs for the Sidewinders, but AFAIK they don't.

I have a Marshall 2x15 cab with Sidewinders, and emailed Celestion (Dr Decibel) a while back asking for the T/S specs. Here they are:

S15-250 HS
Piston dia D ; 0.33m
Dynamic mass Mmt ; 57.0g
Total Q, Qts ; 0.27
Mechanical Q, Qms ; 9.08
Electrical Q, Qes ; 0.28
Resonance Fs ; 40Hz
Equivalent Volume Vas ; 296 litre
Motor Product Bl ; 18.1 Tm
Compliance Cms ; 0.29 mm/N
Mechanical Resistance Rms ; 1.55 kg/s
DC Resistance Re ; 6.5
Sensitivity ; 101dB (1W@1m)
Power rating ; 250W RMS
75oz ceramic magnet
Edgewound Aluminium voice coil, 2.5" diameter
60-5000Hz useful frequency response.
Suggested alignment ; 100 litre vented box tuned at 55Hz


They didn't include the Xmax, and when I asked about that, I was told between 2 and 4 mm, but they weren't sure.

Cheers!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

They didn't include the Xmax, and when I asked about that, I was told between 2 and 4 mm, but they weren't sure.

And of course that's on of the most critical specs. 3mm is the absolute minimum acceptable unless you're running less than 50 watts per driver.

60-5000Hz useful frequency response.

Very much a guitar driver.

 

[Clammy]

And of course that's on of the most critical specs. 3mm is the absolute minimum acceptable unless you're running less than 50 watts per driver.
Very much a guitar driver.

Interesting. I play bass through my cab, using my VBA 400, and there's plenty of low-end coming from it, while the speakers don't sound like they're hurting. We play at high volume.

Once, I was playing through it at relatively low volume in my living room, and the bottom end caused a couple of light bulbs to vibrate so hard the filaments inside broke (scared my cat and dog, too!), hehehe...

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Interesting. I play bass through my cab, using my VBA 400, and there's plenty of low-end coming from it, while the speakers don't sound like they're hurting. We play at high volume.

Without knowing that all important xmax spec there's just no way of knowing exactly what they're capable of. And both 'loud' and 'low' are subjective terms. I used to run an EVM 15B 2x15, and at that time that seemed to go low and loud. I now run a 1x12 that to my ear works just as well, and to my back works a lot better.

 

[sickest beast]

Interesting indeed.

I have a 1552 2x15.

My sidewinders are not the HS designated model.

I play guitar through this cabinet now, and it works great for distorted, low-tuned guitar. It sounds much better for guitar than it did for bass.

I just built myself a marshall style 4x12, and need a quad of 12 inch speakers to put in that will work well with the sidewinders.

I've considered the Weber Legacy 12, the high power Weber Thames 12, Celestion Creamback and the Weber Axis 12.

Picking guitar drivers is tough, there are far too many options out there.

 

[Clammy]

Interesting indeed.

I have a 1552 2x15.

My sidewinders are not the HS designated model.

I play guitar through this cabinet now, and it works great for distorted, low-tuned guitar. It sounds much better for guitar than it did for bass.

I just built myself a marshall style 4x12, and need a quad of 12 inch speakers to put in that will work well with the sidewinders.

I've considered the Weber Legacy 12, the high power Weber Thames 12, Celestion Creamback and the Weber Axis 12.

Picking guitar drivers is tough, there are far too many options out there.

Are you sure they're not the HS versions? AFAIK, the 1552 only came with the HS versions.

I use my 1552 with my 1520 4x12 loaded with Eminence S2012 Basslites, powered by one of my VBA 400s, and it's a monsterous sounding rig. The 1552 pumps out lots of beefy low end. The only thing I changed in it was line it.

Cheers!

 

[sickest beast]

From what I read on the Vintageamps.com Forum, a guy who used to work for Celestion said this:

When I was at celestion we always called the Sidewinder 'the speaker least likely to ever be reissued' ! They were aimed at getting a kind of EV sound ; very flat and sterile. They all used flatwound Aluminium voice coils which to my ears just did not work for lead guitar. The paper edge (lead) version had a cone that was too thick, so sounded very cardboardy and lacked sparkle and life, with a very harsh top end. The cloth edge (bass) version was quite good for percussive bass playing (slapping etc) but again a bit cold and hard sounding for pick or finger styles. The sidewiders came in the following versions ;
S10-150 PE
S10-150 CE
S12-150 PE (cast and pressed chassis versions)
S12-150 CE (cast and pressed chassis versions)
S15-250 CE (cast and pressed chassis versions)
S15-250 HS CE (cast and pressed chassis versions)
The HS was High Sensitivity, and is one of the loudest 15's you'll ever find.
The S12 was a love/hate speaker ; it was OK for clean, but horrible for lead unless you wanted a very aggressive harsh tone.

I used to have a Marshall 800 series 2x15 bass cab with S15-250 HS's in ; it looked like a 4x12 but wasn't. That was loud, and as long as you kept it clean, didn't want deep bass and liked a lot of attack it was pretty good.

All in all, not a widely loved range of speakers.

Not a very flattering description.

I'm guessing mine are the CE version, because nowhere on my 15's does it say HS CE. On the Dr.Tube website, it says the 1552 came stock with:

It was fitted with two 15" Celestion S15-250 16Ω 250W SideWinder speakers.

The 1552 must have came with both.

I'm going to double check my speakers later today to make sure.

 

[sickest beast]

I've got a 2x15" cab with Sidewinder speakers. One of them is distorting from low volume levels. It "works" but sounds really nasty.
Sometimes it measures 8 ohms, sometimes 0.

Can this be fixed or should I get a replacement?

To the OP, if you are still looking to fix your Sidewinder, I found this:

http://www.soundspeakerrepair.com/m...lestion-OEM-T3839&Category_Code=KIT-Celestion

 

[Clammy]

From what I read on the Vintageamps.com Forum, a guy who used to work for Celestion said this:



Not a very flattering description.

I'm guessing mine are the CE version, because nowhere on my 15's does it say HS CE. On the Dr.Tube website, it says the 1552 came stock with:

The 1552 must have came with both.

I'm going to double check my speakers later today to make sure.

Mine don't say "HS" anywhere on them either, but the IBS handbook from Marshall states that the 1552 cab is "high sensitivity". There's only one rating for sensitivity (103dB 1W/1m), and I can't see any reason why Marshall would put the HS ones in some 1552s and the non-HS ones in other 1552s.

Mine sure is LOUD, and I love the tone I get out of it. Like all things musical, it's a subjective, personal taste thing.

Cheers!

 

[sickest beast]

Mine don't say "HS" anywhere on them either, but the IBS handbook from Marshall states that the 1552 cab is "high sensitivity". There's only one rating for sensitivity (103dB 1W/1m), and I can't see any reason why Marshall would put the HS ones in some 1552s and the non-HS ones in other 1552s.

Mine sure is LOUD, and I love the tone I get out of it. Like all things musical, it's a subjective, personal taste thing.

Cheers!

Awesome!

I stand corrected.

I know my cabinet is a 1552, so they must be S15-250 HS CE speakers.

I agree with you on the sound. They sounded good with my Mesa Boogie, they sound good with my Super Bass. I think they sound even better with my p-90 equipped SG guitar. They aren't flabby, they remain nice and tight, and they take fuzz pedals really well.

 

[Clammy]

Awesome!

I stand corrected.

I know my cabinet is a 1552, so they must be S15-250 HS CE speakers.

I agree with you on the sound. They sounded good with my Mesa Boogie, they sound good with my Super Bass. I think they sound even better with my p-90 equipped SG guitar. They aren't flabby, they remain nice and tight, and they take fuzz pedals really well.

Excellent. As an aside: if you ever think of selling that 1552, let me have first crack at it, ok?

Cheers!

 

[sickest beast]

Excellent. As an aside: if you ever think of selling that 1552, let me have first crack at it, ok?

Cheers!

haha In the unlikely event I do decide to part with it, you'll be the first person I contact.

I built my Hendrix style 4x12 to match it exactly. So it's part of a full stack now.

I see them for sale online in the UK more often than in North America. It's a unique cabinet, and I've seen a few threads of guys looking for them because they look like Marshall stack cabinets.

 

[Clammy]

haha In the unlikely event I do decide to part with it, you'll be the first person I contact.

I built my Hendrix style 4x12 to match it exactly. So it's part of a full stack now.

I see them for sale online in the UK more often than in North America. It's a unique cabinet, and I've seen a few threads of guys looking for them because they look like Marshall stack cabinets.

Looks great, man! You did a full resto on the 1552 too, right?

Yeah, I don't think Marshall sent too many IBS systems over to this side of the world. It took me FOREVER to find the 1520 cab, and it was empty when I got it. Most people think "guitar" when they see/hear "Marshall", so their bass rigs don't sell well over here. Meanwhile, Marshall has put out some KILLER bass rigs over the years, with the current VBA series being the best yet, IMHO. And, like all Marshall bass gear, the VBA series heads and cabs are rare on this side of the world, too!

Cheers!