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Simple question

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#21
Varkatzas said:
So, getting a power amp it is. Anyone suggest a decently priced, decent amp?
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OK. I won't get into the how's and why's (it does sound :eyebrow: to me), but here's some possibilities, pick your power/price point:

Carvin DCM1500 : 1500 watts/4 ohms bridged $400 (2RU)
Carvin DCM2000 : 2000 watts/4 ohms bridged $500 (3RU)
Carvin DCM2500 : 2500 watts/4 ohms bridged $600 (3RU)

I'm sure others will recommend their favorite amp but by all accounts these are supposed to be damn good for the money. I just ordered a DCM1500 myself.
 
#22
Uhhhhh, if you HAVE to deal with Basson, get a smaller cabinet? For the money and trouble you've had with that system, you've given me plenty of reason to RUN the other way if I ever see one... Ok, I know==get an SVT cab and place it BEHIND the Basson, and put your Ampeg on top of the cab. Then run the power to the SVT cabinet in back! No? Yes! Thanks for the information on the insane requirements on these cabs. Sounds like someone was smoking their socks when they designed/built them....!
 
#25
Bill Fitzmaurice said the Bassons use ridiculously oversized magnets in their speakers and it takes some juice to kick them into gear. But if I'm not mistaken, Nikki Sixx uses two cabs with two 300w SVT heads. He might have replaced the speakers, though. Crazy insane requirements, 1500w.
 
#26
Go buy a QSC RMX 5050 its 5000 Watts bridged into 4 OHMs. They are about the price of your 6PRO and if that blows up tell Basson they have a serious issue that needs fixed deal or not. I couldnt afford to run a cab like that. Does that unit have the ability to run stereo like the AMPEG's? That would cut the power down to two channels and two smaller amps. BOB
 
#27
DavisP said:
you guys suck at answering his question
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And what have you added to the conversation ??

According to your profile, you own a Basson 8X10

Are YOU powering it with 1500 watts - NOT by your profile.

Is your head blowing transformers ?

What is your experience with the cab ?



Sorry you feel the rest of us experienced players think the OP's problems and statements are BS.

The fact is, speakers do not DRAW power from your head. They react to power supplied.

Yes, they may need alot of power to hit the sweet spot sound reproduction wise, but if his cab is causing power transformers to blow, there is a problem.
 
#31
From their website:

"This cabinet pounds relentlessly with a meanness that Nikki Sixx describes as "pure evil." It shares some fundamental warm sub-bass sustaining qualities as the B210B and B410B, but has a subtle growl that begs to be pushed at 2,000 watts."

There's the answer....it's "pure evil". :eek:
 
#32
Bass_Pounder said:
The fact is, speakers do not DRAW power from your head.
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Shoot I donno BP, my speakers draw all the power from my head and leaves me feeling dizzy and light headed all the time.

Ah the kid is 16, he'll get cooler as he matures. Yes he could have really added some insight to this topic but blew the chance.

My thoughts here are due to the MONSTER magnets in these speakers it results in some way serious inductive transients that it takes serious headroom to overcome. The Inductive reactance acts just like it is a 1 OHM cab in a sence but with a kickback that is damaging transformers or FETs. Thats about all I can see as it being.

It would be interesting to put a scope on this and see whats happening.

Interesting problem. BOB
 
#33
rbonner said:
Shoot I donno BP, my speakers draw all the power from my head and leaves me feeling dizzy and light headed all the time.

Ah the kid is 16, he'll get cooler as he matures. Yes he could have really added some insight to this topic but blew the chance.

My thoughts here are due to the MONSTER magnets in these speakers it results in some way serious inductive transients that it takes serious headroom to overcome. The Inductive reactance acts just like it is a 1 OHM cab in a sence but with a kickback that is damaging transformers or FETs. Thats about all I can see as it being.

It would be interesting to put a scope on this and see whats happening.

Interesting problem. BOB
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Except others on this forum own the 8X10, and none have posted about it eating power transformers.

Acme's are super power hungry too. Yet, they don'w kill your head when played at average/low volumes.

Maybe the original posters cabinet is like the movie Cruise Control.....................

"You must keep the cabinet at 1500 watts...........if you go below, your head will explode" :eek:
 
#34
The owner of this cabinet is DavisP, I am just trying to figure out the problem.

We are taking the cabinet in today to make sure it is 4 ohms, and we will be trying to svt6 on a different cabinet, and hopefully it works fine, and it didn't break like the svt2 did

Also, I talked to shawn from basson, and he said that nikki sixx told them he was using a the classic svt head, and they told him that wasn't correct, and they bought him an svt 4. So now he either uses a 4, or uses a power amp
 
#35
Varkatzas said:
The guy's at Basson said even if it's 1400w, it will work okay for a bit, then it will basically kill the output transformer in the head (which it has blown our SVT2 and SVT6 already).
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The problem is not power, it's impedance. Very low Qts drivers, which is what Basson uses, show a far higher average impedance load to the amp than drivers with average Qts figures. Tube amps don't like high impedance loads, it's as simple as that. OTOH high Qts drivers, which is what's usually employed in sealed cabs, show a lower impedance load than drivers with average Qts.
The nominal impedance rating of the drivers has no bearing here. For those curious enough to check this out, do a sim in WinISD Alpha Pro with a low Qts Kappa Pro 10, a medium Qts Delta 10 and a high Qts Alpha 10, all in 1.5 cu ft, all tuned to 40 Hz, you'll see what I'm talking about.
As the question what is the benefit to very low Qts drivers, IMO, where electric bass is concerned there is none.
 
#36
billfitzmaurice said:
The problem is not power, it's impedance. Very low Qts drivers, which is what Basson uses, show a far higher average impedance load to the amp than drivers with average Qts figures. Tube amps don't like high impedance loads, it's as simple as that. OTOH high Qts drivers, which is what's usually employed in sealed cabs, show a lower impedance load than drivers with average Qts.
The nominal impedance rating of the drivers has no bearing here. For those curious enough to check this out, do a sim in WinISD Alpha Pro with a low Qts Kappa Pro 10, a medium Qts Delta 10 and a high Qts Alpha 10, all in 1.5 cu ft, all tuned to 40 Hz, you'll see what I'm talking about.
As the question what is the benefit to very low Qts drivers, IMO, where electric bass is concerned there is none.
Click to expand...

This kind of makes sense for a tube output stage but don't the two amps that the OP said were damaged have SS output sections? Not saying that it's not an impedance issue but a SS amp should be less susceptible to damage than that, particularly if the impedance is higher than normal. If it were very low at some point (like less than 2 ohms) then it might cause problems with the output devices operating outside of their safe operating area (SOA) when running high power. But then again, turning down should avoid the problem. Still not totally convinced as to what's going on. :confused:
 
#37
gerryjazzman said:
This kind of makes sense for a tube output stage but don't the two amps that the OP said were damaged have SS output sections?:
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If it has an output transformer it's tube, or a forty year old first generation SS that would suffer the same fate. If the transformers that are blowing are power transformers that would be caused by overheating from running the amp too hard for too long, and that would be the result with a very inefficient speaker, which is also the case with very low Qts drivers.
 
#38
Varkatzas said:
"This is the most brutal cab in Basson's line of bass cabinets weighing in at nearly 230 lbs. with 8 - 10" BS1075 drivers with 200oz. magnets and 2,000W RMS handling at 4 ohms. Amp choice is critical and MUST run at 1,500 watts per channel at 4 ohms minimum."

It sounded iffy to me at first also, but now that we have ruined two amplifiers output transformers because they weren't 1500w, I believe it. The magnets in the Basson cabs are so huge, they are basically power hungry, and NEED that power.
Click to expand...

Well, I believe that this happened, but if Basson can't give a real reason for why their cabinets will cause amp failure if it isn't powerful enough then they're hiding something or they don't know themselves what is going on. I did a search on that cabinet and came across some reviews on Harmony Central. Several people were using SVT4/pro's with no problems. One guy was using a Sunn 300T: "...It first it sounded terrible, I didn't know what was wrong, but this thing is really picky on what heads you use. But I threw my Sunn 300T in front of it and it was magic..."

So what does this mean? The impedance could have a certain reactive component such that it causes an amp to become unstable and break into ultrasonic oscillation which can cause catastrophic failure. Not all amps are unconditionally stable into any load impedance and this type of failure is not unprecedented (we already know that some crappy amps oscillate with piezos attached to them without a series resistor for example, something that has been discussed on Bill's forum). I'm just speculating. The only way to know for sure would be to do some measurements on one. In any case I can not fathom any reason for the magical number of "1500 watts". Maybe to get the most out of an inefficient cabinet, but not to circumvent amp failure (B.S.). The specifics of the design and how it reacts to unfriendly loads is more important. I just think if someone puts out a product that can potentially ruin someone's property even though they're using it in a reasonable way, that they are irresponsible. Saying just that it NEEDS 1500 watts isn't good enough. They need to say that you're amp will be damaged if it's not rated at 1500 watts (not somewhere in their fine print is it?). Not my cup of tea :spit:.

Since you already have the cabinet, try a hefty power amp if you want to. Hope it results in :bassist: and not :bawl: ! Good luck with this!
 
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