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Simple way to record w/o computer?

I

Ibanezzer

Guest
Aug 12, 2004
499
0
Dayton, Ohio
www.davidswafford.com
#1
Hi, I'm sorry if this is a repeat but I was having trouble located specifically what I am trying to find via a search.

I am interested in making recordings just for personal reference. I presently record on a computer but am kind of fed up with how problematic it can be (I know I should just get an apple and all the problems will go away....). Anyways I'm using audacity and I have used two different computers of which both have been problematic in making recordings, one which had a nice soundblaster audigy platinum card on it (which stopped working recently) and was all high end 3.0Ghz w/ 1GB ram and another was a laptop (older 900 Mhz, 256Ram) with just the standard line input via 1/8th. I am using a mackie mixer board and a boss gt-6b as my DI and a mic mixed in to that. Sobasically I just need something to take the final mixer board signal to. I use computers all day at work and would really prefer to use something else, sepecifically where I can just simply press record walk away. I would also like it to be easy to reference at a later time. With audacity if I leave it recording too long it will lock up and I have often lost all of the current recording because it crashes (this happens whenever I do like a 10-15minute and longer track.

What I was thinking of are three things of which I have not used any very much:

1) A racked mini disc recorder deck

2) A racked cd-rw recording deck

3) A "digital" recorder

I would like to say my budget is in the 300-400 dollar range but would not mind going all the way up to 600 for something that does the job well and is simple to use.

I am not familiar with digital recorders but the impression I have is that they put them to some type of flash card and then you need to transfer them to a computer? To me this seems tedius to transfer it, so I'm shying away from this approach right now. If this is easier than making cds then please let me know as I have not done either.

I am somewhat familiar with minidisc as I used to have an older portable sony unit. It was tedious to put anything onto or to pull anything out of it. Also the portable unit would not hold up in the way I handle things. I would like something rugged and prefereably racked so that it lasts a while.

CD writers, do they just record everything to one track or what? I think this would be the best option as blank cds are very very cheap and it eliminates the computer involvement to make a cd of it. Though the short recording time might be a deciding factor, it is only 80 minutes to a cd right?

I don't like using my computer for more than email, myspace, and talk bass so I would prefer a non-computer solution. I am not sure what I would do with a multi-track recorder, any thoughts on that? I have a 12 channel mixer right now and can mix as I need so something minimal but good quality and ease of use intersts me.

Specifically I want something that I can press record on and walk away for my entire practice and press stop. I find that using a computer involves so much time that I don't get as much in with practicing and recording as I do in the "prep" time needed to record.

Any opinions?

Thanks for your time,
David.
 
#2
I got a Tascam 788, and it's a pretty good little unit. But there are a couple caveats:

It's menu-driven, which means you have to learn what buttons to push and a few toggling sequences to get around on it. it's a pain, and you spend a few moments along the way wishing you had a cassette 4-track. Also it comes with a 7.85G Hard-Drive, not much. You can replace the HD with a bigger one, though.

Also- to transfer wav files, you have to learn the process to burn your tracks to an external CD-R thing, and it has to be the right kind (or you'll render the machine useless forever). Either that or transfer via the analogue outs to your PC, or other CD burner.

Another way to go is the DP-01 recorder- also a Tascam. 2-Band EQ, a decent sized HD, and all the knobs are on the surface, so it's much quicker learning to use it. There is also a model (there are several) in this line with built-in effects, and I think one of 'em has a CD burner... Guitar Center has them, among others. Check out the Tascam web-site.

Zoom, Fostex, Tascam, Roland all make these gadgets in the lower price range. I like that Tascam DP-01 line best though- probably what you're after.
 
#4
For starters I literally recorded a couple hundred of songs at band practice using a Zoom MRS4 and a couple of used condenser mics (Oktava MK-219 and -319). The mics were powered using a small battery operated phantom power unit. The songs are recorded to a memory card which I then fed to a computer using a reader. Free Zoom software downloaded from their web site converts the files to .wav so you can burn to CD. This rig cost me about $400. I ended up adding a couple of 128mB memory cards (more $$$) since the 32mB memory supplied with the Zoom doesn't go very far. Depending on song length you can record 5 - 8 songs per 128mB card. I now record with a laptop and firepod audio interface.
 
#5
I use a Tascam DP-01FX. Because the whole computer thing was way too much hassle, too much money for the quality and capabilitites I wanted and ate away my creativity trying to get it to work.
For what I woulda spent to get the 'puter upta speed I got the Tascam and a decent keyboard and mics. Still use the computer for a drum machine and also to burn cds and I am also using it to compile and mix stuff for an ambient project I am working on but still using the DP01FX for recording analog to digital.
I've used the Tascam to record tracks up to 30 minutes without any problems and it's very portable. I've been using it to source record some classical stuff with excellent results.
 
#6
bassbrad said:
I use a Tascam DP-01FX. Because the whole computer thing was way too much hassle, too much money for the quality and capabilitites I wanted and ate away my creativity trying to get it to work.
For what I woulda spent to get the 'puter upta speed I got the Tascam and a decent keyboard and mics. Still use the computer for a drum machine and also to burn cds and I am also using it to compile and mix stuff for an ambient project I am working on but still using the DP01FX for recording analog to digital.
I've used the Tascam to record tracks up to 30 minutes without any problems and it's very portable. I've been using it to source record some classical stuff with excellent results.
Click to expand...

Hey thanks, I pulled up some info on that unit and it looks more like what I want. I noticed it said that its got a 40GB hard drive built in, have you ever come to filling that? Just wondering what it would take to fill 40GB with recording? Thanks for posting that, I can definately relate to the whole computer eating away at creativity time, to me its just a lot more hassle for a simple recording. Thanks again.

David.
 
#7
Ibanezzer said:
Hey thanks, I pulled up some info on that unit and it looks more like what I want. I noticed it said that its got a 40GB hard drive built in, have you ever come to filling that? Just wondering what it would take to fill 40GB with recording? Thanks for posting that, I can definately relate to the whole computer eating away at creativity time, to me its just a lot more hassle for a simple recording. Thanks again.

David.
Click to expand...

This isn't going to be the most helpfull/accurate of posts, but all I can really say is that 40gb is a fair whack of space!! I can't tell you in time, but thats a lot of audio. Maybe someone who knows the equation could give you a minute time, but im pretty sure thats a decent amount of space.
 
#8
If you are doing recording of high quality uncompressed inputs, then 40GB would mean 1 hour of a 16 channel project. So, 12 takes for each channel for a 5 minute song, or 12 songs at one take each. (just a quick on-the-napkin calculation, i may be mistaken there)
 
#9
Not that I'm trying to push you back to using your computer or anything, but here are a few thoughts.

I use Audacity, too. (Admittedly it's under OSX on my Mac, but...) I wonder if the lock-ups you're experiencing might be due to any of the following factors:
a) how much HDD space you have available for its storage of temporary files while working
b) your machine's memory management/swap-filing behaviour
c) how many other applications and/or utilities you might have running at the same time, sapping memory
c) the file system on your HDD. I don't know which OS you've got (Linux distro maybe?), but if it's using an old file system similar to FAT32, it may be that your temp files are reaching its maximum 2GB size limit while you're recording. A more modern file system (like NTFS) won't have this problem.
d) do you have an automatic de-fragging utility running in the background? These can play havoc with recording of audio and video files. If so, disable it before starting work.

I'll PM you with some other ideas. :)
 
#10
I have not filled it up yet. Currently I have 30 songs of my own that I am working on. 30 more songs that are song demos recorded for several songwriters. 20 more songs that are recordings of classical piano and a chamber group.
Maybe 4 hours or a bit more.
I should probably look at cleaning some stuff off but then I'd hafta dig out the manual oh well it's gotta be done.
 
#11
Espidog said:
Not that I'm trying to push you back to using your computer or anything, but here are a few thoughts.

I use Audacity, too. (Admittedly it's under OSX on my Mac, but...) I wonder if the lock-ups you're experiencing might be due to any of the following factors:
a) how much HDD space you have available for its storage of temporary files while working
b) your machine's memory management/swap-filing behaviour
c) how many other applications and/or utilities you might have running at the same time, sapping memory
c) the file system on your HDD. I don't know which OS you've got (Linux distro maybe?), but if it's using an old file system similar to FAT32, it may be that your temp files are reaching its maximum 2GB size limit while you're recording. A more modern file system (like NTFS) won't have this problem.
d) do you have an automatic de-fragging utility running in the background? These can play havoc with recording of audio and video files. If so, disable it before starting work.

I'll PM you with some other ideas. :)
Click to expand...


I'm kinda frustrated because I have one really high end computer and a laptop and the problem happens on both computers. The high end box is running windows xp with the NTFS file system writing data to a 150GB SATA stripped raid array using two 80GB drives. This machine is a single processor Intel XEON 3.0 Ghz with 1GB of ram (this is a server class machine, actually an IBM eServer). I usually have a bit open but not that much for a high end box. The laptop is just an older Dell thats got Windows 2000 Professional on it running the NTFS file system. Its a 900Mhz box with 256MB RAM and a smaller 30GB hard drive. Regardless of what machine I use, Audacity locks up about 5-10 minutes in on recording if its a single track that long. I have only worked with one other audio app, Wave Lab lite, and it was harder to use but didn't lock up so much. I like audacity becasue it was easier and free. It just feels cumbersome to record on a computer when all I want is something that will always work, where computer are up or down or in between based on their mood (do MACs do this? I have a friend that is pushing me to become a mac person).

David.
 
#12
I bought a Fostex MR-8 and a 1 GB compact flash card. It's very easy to use and works just fine, but I recommended using a separate preamp if you plan to record vocals (and I guess MkI -which is what I have- doesn't have phantom power, but MkII does).
With a small 3-channel mixer, I even miked drums and it was pretty good. We were trying to record our demo, and we realized we're not gonna get too far this way even though everything worked fine. So we ended up buying studio time.
The MR-8 has been sitting in my closet and I'm trying to sell it now. I still recommend it for its ease of use.
I also record with the PC at home, and there's nothing like the flexibility of PC recording. So I ultimately prefer that. I use Tracktion 2 -THE BEST piece of recording software out there. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND downloading the demo.
 

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