Double Bass Simplicity in a gigging rig?

[mlwarriner]

I suppose this is about as good a place for this as any. Like any true GAS-head, I'm always thinking about my gigging rig and how to make it better. Better sounding, easier to transport, etc.

Right now, I run an old Kay bass with a Deuce bridge. Vic's pickups in the bridge wing and behind the fingerboard. Both pickups feed separately into a Headway EDB-2 HE preamp and then into a Quilter Bassblock 800 head and various cabinets. I play loud rowdy country with a definite rock and/or 'billy bent.

I also have an fDeck HPF (version 2) available as needed.

For modularity and scale-ability, I've just picked up a Genz Benz Shuttle 210 combo that I will also run.

I guess my question is do I need the Headway? Can I just run everything through the fdeck and use the amps' controls to adjust tones? I feel like i get plenty of slap sound through just the bridge pickup, and that the fingerboard pickup is just superfluous...

 

[Don Hergert]

As you've observed, if you want both signals from your Vic's Model C, you're going to need something that will handle and blend the two channels. If your combo amp supports two channels you could potentially feed both of your piezo channels directly into it and blend them there...

Or, some folks have found their slap piezo isn't 100% necessary, given that Vic's Model C bridge piezo has two layers and is very sensitive -- but it depends on how good your bass is at transmitting slap sound to the bridge, which may change if you change strings, setup, etc.

For me personally, I found I could simplify my piezo setup most easily by reducing the feeds out from my DB, and by putting blending control within reach on the bass, which means having a blending pre-amp for my piezos mounted on the bass.

Ironically, I still have 3 potential feeds out of my bass if needed: two identical blended mono piezo feeds, and a completely separate (clear) mounted mic feed. This gives me lots of choices -- most of the time I either use only one or only two of these feeds, but potentially, for example, I could send mono piezo feeds to both a personal amp and to an FOH, plus send a clear mounted mic feed to either an amp or to an FOH.

It's worth mentioning, most of the time when my DB is plugged in, it is for festival work on stage, where there is almost always an FOH that is fully monitored on stage.

And, for me very importantly, wireless TX/RC units mean whatever feeds I'm using, my DB movement is not restricted by cables. Since I'm slightly mobility challenged, I really appreciate not worrying about cables on the floor while I'm playing or moving things around.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm an advocate of simple. ANd the fewer devices, the less there is to go wrong.

Also, the Shuttle is an excellent amp with a tube preamp that should give you grit if you want it.

 

[mlwarriner]

My pickups are actually separate. One feed for the bridge and a completely separate one for the fingerboard. Thus I could dump the fingerboard entirely without issue.

 

[mlwarriner]

And if I really wanted to go nutty, I also have a Krivo magnetic pickup laying around somewhere

 

[bherman]

Only way to know is to try it and see how it goes. Next gig, set up as usual but keep the fb pickup off and see if you miss it.

FWIW I use a Krivo on my Eminence EUB and am happy with it. Nice never having to worry about feedback. We

 

[mlwarriner]

Only way to know is to try it and see how it goes. Next gig, set up as usual but keep the fb pickup off and see if you miss it.

FWIW I use a Krivo on my Eminence EUB and am happy with it. Nice never having to worry about feedback. We

I've been turning off the FB channel on the Headway in band practice, and it really doesn't seem to make any difference. I still get plenty of clack/slap from just the bridge pickup.

 

[sean_on_bass]

If you can pare down to a single input from your pickup system, you can eliminate the preamp entirely assuming whatever amp you use has the features you need. So the simplest rig is pickup directly into a combo amp.

 

[mlwarriner]

with what i have on-hand (or en route), there's several options

bridge piezo through the HPF, then split to the genz and the quilter
bridge piezo through the HPF, into the genz and slave the quilter off of the genz
stick the krivo back on and send piezo through the HPF to one amp, magnetic to the other




so much for "simplicity"

 

[Wasnex]

The EDB-2 HE has a switchable HPF on each channel. Maybe you don't need the fDeck. Selectable frequencies for the HPFs are 41hz, 85hz, and 182hz.

Part of the answer depend on how much corrective EQ you need and how well the amp works without the EDB-2 HE.

 

[mlwarriner]

The EDB-2 HE has a switchable HPF on each channel. Maybe you don't need the fDeck. Selectable frequencies for the HPFs are 41hz, 85hz, and 182hz.

Part of the answer depend on how much corrective EQ you need and how well the amp works without the EDB-2 HE.

much of the basis of this thread was the idea of getting rid of the headway entirely. whether it's true or just in my head, i feel like the more knobs there are between my fingers and the speakers, the more i struggle to get a sound that i like. i struggle sometimes with using the headway EQ and the amps' EQ and eventually wind up just hating my overall sound entirely.

 

[Don Hergert]

... and eventually wind up just hating my overall sound entirely.

Hmmm, maybe this will work for you like it has for me...

I've come to the conclusion that I'll never get a perfect sound electronically. I might get close, but I'll always prefer pure acoustic sound. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who as finally figured this out.

There, does that help?

 

[Ric Vice]

The Headway EDB-2 H.E. s a much better preamp for acoustic Double Bass vs the Gentz Benz which is fine but not as "refined". Just as a personal note, I never run the Headway into the front end of an Amplifier. There's just to much Gain Staging and EQ boosting going on
with two sets of EQ's. I run it directly into the FX loop and bypass the head's EQ. Just my approach. In my situations I'd give up the amp before I ditched the Headway EDB-2 H.E. Everyone has different approaches, what I do may not be loud enough for
your needs.

 

[Wasnex]

much of the basis of this thread was the idea of getting rid of the headway entirely.

Yes I understood and was trying to suggest a different path that may simplify your setup and also improve the sound. The only way to find out is to try it...or feel free to totally disregard the suggestion.

If the amp has an Effects Loop you could try the Headway in front of the amp, or in the Effects Return. Many amps place the Effects Loop after the preamp on the input of the power amp. In other words, you may be able to bypass the combo's preamp.

 

[mlwarriner]

I’m sure at some point I ran the Headway into the return of the Quilter. I couldn’t get anywhere near enough volume out of it, but I think that may have been because the DI out of the Headway is mic level and the return of the Quilter wants line level (even though it’s an XLR jack).

So I moved it to the input.

 

[mlwarriner]

I’ll experiment with some different setups once I get all the parts together.

 

[Wasnex]

I’m sure at some point I ran the Headway into the return of the Quilter. I couldn’t get anywhere near enough volume out of it, but I think that may have been because the DI out of the Headway is mic level and the return of the Quilter wants line level (even though it’s an XLR jack).

So I moved it to the input.

The manual says both the XLR and 1/4" line out are 0.5V RMS nominal. That is a pretty weak line level signal -3.8dBu. It may work in the effects return and it may not (depend on the amp).

 

[Ric Vice]

I’m sure at some point I ran the Headway into the return of the Quilter. I couldn’t get anywhere near enough volume out of it, but I think that may have been because the DI out of the Headway is mic level and the return of the Quilter wants line level (even though it’s an XLR jack).

So I moved it to the input.

I always used the 1/4 amp out on the side. It was plenty loud enough for my needs, but the styles of music I play are different than yours. It’s worth a shot.