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Singer needs a break...

#21
hdracer said:
OT for a second,
How do you pay a singer like that?
I know I would feel shorted if I drug my gear to & from a show and worked the stage all night only to have a "fair" split with a member that only worked a part of the show.
Click to expand...

Drummer #2 used to show up late, so he didn't do much setup, and then he was in a hurry, and didn't want to do much tear down, and always whined, "well, I set up MY gear."

See, Drums get amplified by the PA system, so I always thought he should help with that gear, as well.

Anyway, we shorted him $25.00 once to account for that, and he made a scene.

So we were on to Drummer #3.

There's more to that story, but you get the idea.
 
#23
mellowinman said:
Drummer #2 used to show up late, so he didn't do much setup, and then he was in a hurry, and didn't want to do much tear down, and always whined, "well, I set up MY gear."

See, Drums get amplified by the PA system, so I always thought he should help with that gear, as well.
Click to expand...

That always kind of bothered me about drummers but I've kind of moved past it. In my band I am by far the fastest to get my personal gear set up. It can take the drummer 1/2 hour to get unpacked, set up and mic'd. Our guitarists pretty regularly take at least 20 minutes each with their pedalboards, multiple guitars to tune, etc. Me? I can get my combo plugged in, hooked to the P.A., unpack my bass, be plugged in tuned up and ready for soundcheck in about 5 minutes. No joke. Which means I usually wind up doing more of the production set-up than the rest of the band but oh well.
 
#24
Not exactly the same thing, but in my jazz group we don't have the singer sing more than four songs without a break.

She's in fabulous shape and doesn't smoke. However we think that the crowd needs a break from vocals, too.
 
#25
I do solo piano/vocal gigs with ZERO break. And I throw in some pretty tough vocal songs that are at the top of my range. On top of that, while I don't do either heavily, I drink and smoke! IMO, she's not cut out for the cover band scene.
 
#26
Her behavior is unprofessional, but singers do need breaks. It all depends on the singer. Some people have great stamina, some don't. I've sung all niters, and my voice isn't strong enough to carry a whole night, but sometimes I get by. But on the second night, it's shot and sounds like crap.

First thing is to decide on whether or not you're gonna deal with her unprofessional behavior. If not, then just can her and move on. Otherwise, you're going to need to work with her to get her voice up to speed. Her singing 75% of your material is a reasonable expectation.
- Check your stage volume and monitoring. If it's too loud and/or the singer can't hear themselves and the singer sings louder to compensate, it will wear faster.
- Make sure she has good vocal technique. Maybe she needs a vocal coach just to work on her endurance.
- Make sure the songs are in her range and a comfortable key for her to sing in. Singing out of your range is a good way to wear your voice down quick.
 
#27
AfroCubanFunkMa said:
I don't think I can accurately comment without a picture of this singer..
Click to expand...

Not to seem shallow or sexist (what's wrong with being sexy? ...no, sexist...) but she is even deficient in THAT area...

I realize the situation may be too far gone, but, other guys and I decided to stage an "intervention". However, if past experience is any indication it won't be pretty...
(Me: (At rehearsal) I think we should work on "Purple Rain"... You seem to regularly forget the third verse...
Her: Why do you guys always gang up on me? Maybe we should just pull the plug on the whole thing!!!)
 
#31
Sounds like you need a break from the singer. If she doesn't take feedback well, I wouldn't be optimistic about her getting her act together based
on that alone. If the resources within aren't enough to move forward, then you need to look outside yourself. If you're not willing to look outside yourself, you are done.
 
#32
Only does 75% of songs: -10%
No help with set up: -10%
No help with tear down: -10%
Moaning to employers/staff: -10%
Smoking and drinking on gig (aka not having her instrument in good condition to do the job): -10%
I make that a 50% pay cut - seems fair to me! (I even resist the urge to dock another 20% for attitude and poor rehearsal co-operation) but TBH I'd just audition new singers if the rest of the band have the same opinion of her.
 
#33
Do you have enough songs that the other band members can sing, that you could do a show without the chick singer at all? Or could the band quickly learn enough songs to make up for the ones she's currently singing?

If that's the case then why not just fire the dysfunctional chick singer, not hire a replacement, and keep the extra pay for yourselves.

My opinion only, but I've always felt like to justify carrying a chick singer she has to meet no less than 3 of the following 5 requirements:

1) Be a great singer

2) Be a great team player (helping with loadin, loadout, a good hang, etc.)

3) Play an instrument (guitar, keys, whatever) at a level of ability that doesn't bring down the rest of the band

4) Have good stage presence / audience / marketing skills

5) Be super hot

Being really good in at least 3 of these areas can make up for being average in the rest but she's got to bring something to the table. Your current chick singer, clearly, is failing on all of the above, therefore you will not be losing that much to dump her. The phrase "addition by subtraction" comes to mind. If you can't find a significant upgrade for her in a reasonable amount of time, then why not each of the rest of you man-up on vocal duties for a few more songs and just go without?
 
#34
MclochNess said:
Here's the deal:

I play in a few cover bands that are somewhat successful (lucrative). Each has its pros and cons.

One of the bands, in which I play guitar (sorry...), is the source of this thread...

The band has been together, and working for more than three years. The singer (female) is not a "musician", but has a good voice, and works the marketing angle fairly well.

As of the last few months, the singer has been unable to make it through entire gigs. She complains that her voice is "shot", and needs to "take it easy" for the rest of the night. This would be fine and dandy if not for the fact that she is a heavy smoker, drinks her share during gigs, and doesn't exercise her voice during the week. The rest of us in the band, myself in particular, have not been very empathetic toward her plight, and have suggested she cut down on smoking, practice during the week, warm up before gigs, etc.

At times, she will complain to the manager or staff of venues about her voice, looking for an out ("it's OK, you guys can cut out early", and such). I find this to be unprofessional, and have told her so.

The REAL issue:

I sing 3-4 songs each night, as well as back-up on almost every tune. The other two guys have taken to singing a couple of tunes each. The singer is suggesting that she shouldn't have to sing more than 3 songs without a break.

My first thought is that this is a bit unreasonable, being that she ONLY sings (no percussion, and/or whatnot, and doesn't even assist with set up / tear down). I'll admit that I'm a bit frustrated (angered) by the situation...

So, I turn to you my TB brethren, for advice and / or guidance.

Is it acceptable for a singer to need so many "breaks" during a typical (3 sets: 1 hr on, 1/2 hr off) gig?

Please advise...
Click to expand...

Hilarious!! I sing 4 sets each Dance (1st is 1 hour, other 3 are 45s) and I get NO break. I MAY get lucky and get 2 instrumentals per Gig. Shes getting off easy. When I lead a Classic Rock Band, I sang 53 out of 54 tunes per night...AND smoked. Now that I've quit, I dont notice much difference.
Tell her to put up, or get out, she 's lazy.

:ninja::ninja::ninja:::hiding::ninja::ninja::ninja:
 
#36
Imagine the bassist didn't practice much or at all. His hands weren't in good playing condition and thus he said he could only play three songs in a row and had to take breaks in between.............................................

You get the drift of course, anybody that can't perform their job in a working band isn't doing their job
 
#37
prd004 said:
Imagine the bassist didn't practice much or at all. His hands weren't in good playing condition and thus he said he could only play three songs in a row and had to take breaks in between.............................................

You get the drift of course, anybody that can't perform their job in a working band isn't doing their job
Click to expand...

This. She is not doing her job. Time to find someone who can.
 
#40
MclochNess said:
Thanks guys for the prompt replies.
I (obviously) agree with you all. It helps to hear it from like-minded individuals, though.

I was just curious if there is any protocol for a vocalist's "song to break" ratio...

I guess 3:1 is a bit extreme!
Click to expand...

I don't know of any kind of ratio but I will say that after 3 songs back to back I can usually use a break for one song too. If you doing a 12 song set that gives her nine and 3 split between the rest of you. I don't think that's unreasonable if you guys have the vocals talent to cover that.

However, the rest her crap is over the line. First of all as the lead singer she shouldn't be drinking period. It dries up the vocal chords. Tell to drink hot tea and honey and she'll keep her voice strong all night. She should be singing during the week to keep her chords warmed up as well. Singing the 3rds and 5ths of the harmony in song is is another great way to keep your range. I'm constantly pushing my voice not bt singing one of my songs in a higher key but by doing the harmonies. It's actually easier on the voice. Less dynamics and pitch movement.

You also need to limit the smokes and tell her to stay the hell away from the owner or club manager with her sob story. It EXTREMELY unprofessional. There is no position in any band called "designated whiner". If that's what she's about find a new singer.

PS: Even if she's too small and weak to tote gear she sure as hell can wrap cable and put the mics away. If she insists on laying low come breakdown time tell her that she's only paid as a sideman. No equal share.
 

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