Singing in tune with earplugs help

[JES]

So during Covid, my wife and I have formed a duo. I play touch guitar (which is tuned to cover both bass and guitar range) and she plays drums and sings. Here's the problem we are having: it's hard for her to sing in tune with earplugs in. She's fine with them out, but you can't really play rock drums without earplugs and protect your hearing, or at least she hasn't found a way. There is no way we will play so quietly that she won't need earplugs behind the kit.

So we are looking for solutions that would let us get better practice recordings and eventually for playing out live post-pandemic. Obviously for recording, we would overdub the vocals later anyway.

It's my job to see if there's a good solution here (yeah, I know, she's the singer, but she doesn't hang out on forums like this one).

My first thought was in-ear monitors that are installed in earplugs.

But then: my experience recording singers is that often they take one side of the headphones off to better sing in tune. In the band we play in together during non-pandemic time, the guitarist and keyboardist often take one earplug out on the songs they sing.

So...for those of you who sing in situations where you need to cover your ears, how do you do it? What do you recommend?

TIA.

 

[bholder]

Subbed to find out too!

 

[bholder]

(I really can't afford to lose any more of my high frequency hearing - already at the "catastrophic loss" stage.)

 

[Joe Nerve]

The best solution would probably be as you mentioned, IEMs.

I'm a bit surprised actually, as earplugs make it MUCH easier for me to sing in key. Its like the old holding one ear so the sound vibrates in our skull. If that's NOT happening with her, and IEMs are too complicated (which they can be), this is the best I can come up with...

First, have her try different earplugs. Either the big fat thick drugstore kind (they make my skull vibrate most), or musician types that can be found on Amazon for not a whole lot of money. They allow for a lot more frequencies to enter. I found a decent set for around $25, after a lot of research. I'd also check how she's putting them in her ears, as I've noticed some people have strange and interesting ways of doing that.

My second, and probably better, suggestion would be to make sure she has a monitor next to her that she can hear the guitar clearly. My best guess is that with the earplugs in all she's hearing is drums, and that's what's causing the problem.

Hope some of that helped. Its all I've got .

 

[Roxbororob]

IEMs? (Inexpensive ones).

 

[RattleSnack]

There is no way we will play so quietly that she won't need earplugs behind the kit.

Do you have PA, mics on drums, and monitors? If so, I think problem is getting levels right for monitor of a singing drummer - hearing guitar/bass AND yourself just right, and not beeing overpowered by your drumming. I think that if she could hit softer and let the PA carry the amplifying, she would have no problem adjusting her monitor and avoid earplugs.
If drums are not miced and she has to hit hard to fill the room, some technical solution is the only way, like in-ears.

 

[JES]

Thanks. The drums are not miced in our practice space. She's not a heavy handed player (unlike me) but sometimes you've got to hit with a certain force to get the tone you want out of the drum or cymbal.

I have been reading around and it looks like some people also prefer a dry vocal sound in their monitors. We usually go with the "confidence cave" setting, but I'll try that. It is true that we keep the vocal monitor distant from her because we want to avoid feedback so we could turn on the monitor closer to her.

Sounds like it's worth trying IEM. We already use the Etymotic musician earplugs, which are really good. She just needs something better.

 

[bholder]

I've wished for this before, but I don't think anyone makes it yet - what I need is a set of combo earplugs / IEMs / prescription hearing aids - block the too-loud sounds to protect what I've got left, but allow me to hear myself, with frequency compensation for what I've already lost - is anyone aware of such a thing? I probably need custom fitted, too, since my ear canals are narrow and twisty.

 

[Roxbororob]

I prefer my vocal dry so I use a Rolls personal monitor right on my pedal board to mix my Bass, Vocal and PA (or room).
The beauty of the Rolls is that if you dont have a board (PA) you can get the room with just a microphone.
I have been using KZ & CCA wired IEMs with good success and they are very affordable.

Ther are some Rolls mixers posted in the classified right now (no affiliation we are a thousand miles apart).

Edit: Lots of resources on Talkbass.

 

[Roxbororob]

I've wished for this before, but I don't think anyone makes it yet - what I need is a set of combo earplugs / IEMs / prescription hearing aids - block the too-loud sounds to protect what I've got left, but allow me to hear myself, with frequency compensation for what I've already lost - is anyone aware of such a thing? I probably need custom fitted, too, since my ear canals are narrow and twisty.

When the going gets tough, I wear shooting phones over my KZs! Not a giggable solution though (not for me at least).

 

[Lowfader]

Have her try a pair of Earasers. I used them for years before I went to iem’s.

 

[darwin-bass]

Custom IEMs may or may not fix the issue.

It is called Audio Occlusion. Very common with hearing aid wearers. The air trapped between the end of the IEM / hearing aid / ear plug and your ear drum contributes to the problem. Not only does it muffle your normal voice but it actually amplifies the mid-bass that you hear through bone conduction.

Some things to do:

1. Have IEMs that don't fully seal (or take one out).
2. Cut the lows and low mids in the IEMs and crank up the upper mids and high. Basically add the missing mids and highs to go with the amplified mid-bass you hear. Probably results in a really loud mix.
3. Custom IEMs that specifically put the tip of the IEM as close to your ear drum as possible. This reduces the volume of trapped air.
4. Use over-the-ear isolating headphones just like in a studio.

And not everyone is affected by occlusion. Some are (I am big time) others are not bothered at all.

 

[LBS-bass]

Are you sure it's a pitch problem? For me, I can't wear earplugs because I lose all the nuance of my vocal delivery when I only have my head voice. I can still hear pitch, but I get no breath, no high end, nothing subtle with earplugs and that's half of what you need to hear to really sing properly. If that's the issue, it's a very common problem for singers, especially if it's not a silent stage.

When I have to (and have a free hand) rather than stick a finger in my ear I prefer to cup my hand around my ear and pull my ear a bit forward to get more high end to my voice into my ear canal, but of course when I'm playing bass I can't do that.

I agree with others that IEMs will solve this problem. Also just getting everyone to turn down if there are live drums and amps on stage. If it's a pitch problem, I don't really have advice.

 

[sawzalot]

I find that IEM's with a digital mixer can cause a little weirdness because there's about a 2ms latency from most digital mixers, so there's a bit of comb filtering that can cause some pitch issues. I find that just making my vocal mix loud enough in my ears works, plus I'm just used to it.

 

[jdh3000]

The best solution would probably be as you mentioned, IEMs.

I'm a bit surprised actually, as earplugs make it MUCH easier for me to sing in key. Its like the old holding one ear so the sound vibrates in our skull. If that's NOT happening with her, and IEMs are too complicated (which they can be), this is the best I can come up with...

First, have her try different earplugs. Either the big fat thick drugstore kind (they make my skull vibrate most), or musician types that can be found on Amazon for not a whole lot of money. They allow for a lot more frequencies to enter. I found a decent set for around $25, after a lot of research. I'd also check how she's putting them in her ears, as I've noticed some people have strange and interesting ways of doing that.

My second, and probably better, suggestion would be to make sure she has a monitor next to her that she can hear the guitar clearly. My best guess is that with the earplugs in all she's hearing is drums, and that's what's causing the problem.

Hope some of that helped. Its all I've got .

I can hear myself better, especially my harmonies, with an earplug in.

It might just be a matter of adjusting to hearing it differently.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

I think part of the earplug problem is relearning how to hear yourself. I think a lot of us take for granted that what our voice sounds like to us is different than what the world hears.

I have worn earplugs during performance/concerts for about 25 years, and I agree with other posters that it can give you a very true concept of your pitch. Sure you lose some nuance, but you can compensate for that. I also think it can keep you aware of when your volume drops off since you have a baseline volume level.

I would suggest doing some live recordings with the earplugs in so you can see what it actually sounds like. The recording does not lie.

 

[Jake Gerber]

So during Covid, my wife and I have formed a duo. I play touch guitar (which is tuned to cover both bass and guitar range) and she plays drums and sings. Here's the problem we are having: it's hard for her to sing in tune with earplugs in. She's fine with them out, but you can't really play rock drums without earplugs and protect your hearing, or at least she hasn't found a way. There is no way we will play so quietly that she won't need earplugs behind the kit.

So we are looking for solutions that would let us get better practice recordings and eventually for playing out live post-pandemic. Obviously for recording, we would overdub the vocals later anyway.

It's my job to see if there's a good solution here (yeah, I know, she's the singer, but she doesn't hang out on forums like this one).

My first thought was in-ear monitors that are installed in earplugs.

But then: my experience recording singers is that often they take one side of the headphones off to better sing in tune. In the band we play in together during non-pandemic time, the guitarist and keyboardist often take one earplug out on the songs they sing.

So...for those of you who sing in situations where you need to cover your ears, how do you do it? What do you recommend?

TIA.

 

[JES]

I think part of the earplug problem is relearning how to hear yourself. I think a lot of us take for granted that what our voice sounds like to us is different than what the world hears.

I have worn earplugs during performance/concerts for about 25 years, and I agree with other posters that it can give you a very true concept of your pitch. Sure you lose some nuance, but you can compensate for that. I also think it can keep you aware of when your volume drops off since you have a baseline volume level.

I would suggest doing some live recordings with the earplugs in so you can see what it actually sounds like. The recording does not lie.

That's why I'm here -- we record ourselves each week in practice when we try new approaches to a tune, and that's where the tuning problem comes up. Sitting at home on the couch, running through the chord pattern while she air drums and sings, it's in tune. At least "close enough for rock."

 

[Jake Gerber]

Where to begin. A few years ago, possibly five or six I noticed my hearing on the high end both vocally,and instrumentally was going downhill.
I went to audiologist to be tested. I could not believe how much my hearing had deteriorated . Finally after three years of testing, and the fact that I’m a professional musician my insurance company would pay for “hearing aids” calibrated for musicians. They are made in Germany,brand name ,Widex”.
These are made for musicians. I was told many in our symphony used these, string section - fiddles - in particular.
I understand what your saying about using only one side. I can hear in both ears but there is a cutoff in frequency range in both ears. Staying on pitch is difficult . In respect to playing bass I often if playing with a recorded track of a vinyl record — I have an analog system. Table,intigrated amp,speakers,all handmade in the UK,and Germany. That’s just the way they do it now. To change from 45 to 33.3 rpm you must lift the glass platter ,and change belt from one capstan to another. I was having problems with semitones in particular. I’ve tried everything, and do believe the best way to hear,and stay on pitch is to use one aid in either ear,and the other just let be.
You’re thinking there is a huge difference in frequency between a male voice - I’m a high tenor- and a bass. It carries over. It’s impossible to explain. The Widex are expensive hence insurance is a must for most people. Drums, I don’t have a clue unless you go tech with pads which work very well,even recording - assuming you’re going to overdub live drums.
Best of luck.

 

[Wasnex]

I second trying different ear plugs. I used ER15s for the duration of my career. They are not anything close to flat due to occlusion, which has been mentioned. Using a mold that extends further into the ear canal helps with occlusion, but too far and the plug can be painful to wear. Buying from a source that knows how to take a good mold and determine the optimum length of the plug is essential for best results.

In addition to build up in the low mids from occlusion, my perception is this type of plug attenuates the highs more than the lows, and also they cause the sound to seem compressed.

Usually this type of plug can be fitted with filters that provide different levels of attenuation. I believe less attenuation will allow the sound to be more natural. Also, it's hard to sing in tune if your voice is totally out of context with the other singers and instruments. Westone offers ER9, ER15, and ER25. Westone Hearing Health Care - Musician Earplug Filters

Wearing only one plug is a bad idea. When you hear sound in both ears you benefit from something called binaural summation. If the sound is equal in both ears, you perceive it as 6dB louder due to binaural summation. Conversely, if you hear it in one ear, then the sound is perceived 6dB lower. The idea is by only using one ear you can't judge the SPL as well, so you may experience excessive SPL without knowing it. In the case of IEMs, you turn the sound up 6dB to get the desired SPL.

Reverb:​

In general it's a bad practice to put reverb into fold back monitors on most situations. Usually rooms are not dry enough to really benefit and adding reverb lowers gain before feedback and exacerbates masking problems.

For IEMs the goal should be to build as authentic of an acoustic space as you can. A bit of reverb tends to help people sing in tune, but you have to select a reverb so it sounds natural and does not get in the way.

The longer the reverb tail the less you can use. Even with a relatively short tail, you want just enough to create a sense of space. Try simulating the experience you get singing in the shower by selecting a reverb with fairly strong early reflections and a short to medium tail.

Creating an authentic sounding acoustic space also requires a stereo mix. I suggest that you limit panning for instruments and voices to about 15dB left and right, as hard panning tends to sound unnatural and it exposes you to the same dangers as pulling one plug.

The only elements of a mix that may sound natural with hard panning are some high-quality stereo effects like reverb. A good reverb presents a continuous acoustic horizon from hard left to hard right, so the effect surrounds and engulfs you. However, I often prefer panning of no more than 20-25dB L/R even with a good reverb. In other words, I pan reverb harder than instruments and voices, but I don't generally hard pan it.

I suggest panning the lowest instruments like bass and bass drum to the center. Lows are omnidirectional, so this will seem most natural. The singers voice and instrument should also be center or very close to center, and I find that most people want to hear their own voice and instrument about 6-10dB louder than the rest of the mix. Pan all other instruments and voices in 2-5dB increments across the L/R horizon up to about 15dB.

These are good basic guidelines to start with, but of course you will want to experiment to find what works best for you.


Good Luck!