Singing in tune with earplugs help

[Jeff Hughes]

That's why I'm here -- we record ourselves each week in practice when we try new approaches to a tune, and that's where the tuning problem comes up. Sitting at home on the couch, running through the chord pattern while she air drums and sings, it's in tune. At least "close enough for rock."

Maybe I should have been more specific in that you should record at gig volume while she has the plugs in.

 

[juancaminos]

Since she is on the drums and immobile...Really good headphones may work. I actually prefer good headphones these to In Ears. They let a little noise in so you don't feel so isolated.

 

[lermgalieu]

I’d recommend custom fitted earplugs, with the ability to swap out filters. Reduce the DB protection until she can hear herself sing but still gets protection from the drums and git.

 

[chazolson]

Interesting to read about others’ experiences with IEMs. For me, the biggest benefit is in really being able to hear your singing (and adjust the pitch accordingly). I have gotten used to the fact that, even when the mix in both monitors and house is balanced, my voice still sounds louder than hell in my ears. After asking my bandmates several times “am I just louder than heck in the monitors” I was assured that I was sitting in the mix properly. Do you think that’s why a lotta singers take one earpiece out?

 

[chazolson]

Interesting to read about others’ experiences with IEMs. For me, the biggest benefit is in really being able to hear your singing (and adjust the pitch accordingly). I have gotten used to the fact that, even when the mix in both monitors and house is balanced, my voice still sounds louder than hell in my ears. After asking my bandmasters several times “am I just louder than heck in the monitors” I was assured that I was sitting in the mix properly. Do you think that’s why a lotta singers take one earpiece out?

And a big thumbs up to custom fitted earpieces. Makes just a world of difference.

 

[Ketbass]

I use a pair of EarSlugs https://www.amazon.com/EarSlugs-Protection-Accessories-Musicians-Festivals/dp/B075ZNLN22. They’re for musicians to be able to hear the music with two different tips, -27dcbl reduction and a 21 db reduction. I play with a jazz/funk group with a drummer who thinks he’s at Madison Square garden, so they’re a necessity. They don’t sound like they’re working as I can hear the spectrum just at lower volume you don’t notice until you remove them. No problem hearing myself or others. I work in construction and use plugs all the time without attenuation and you can tell, but my ears feel about the same when I take either of them out - No ringing

 

[RattleSnack]

Thanks. The drums are not miced in our practice space. She's not a heavy handed player (unlike me) but sometimes you've got to hit with a certain force to get the tone you want out of the drum or cymbal.

I have been reading around and it looks like some people also prefer a dry vocal sound in their monitors. We usually go with the "confidence cave" setting, but I'll try that. It is true that we keep the vocal monitor distant from her because we want to avoid feedback so we could turn on the monitor closer to her.

Sounds like it's worth trying IEM. We already use the Etymotic musician earplugs, which are really good. She just needs something better.

I would try closer monitor position and better mix, before going to IEM. I have nothing against IEM, but that's aditional equipment to carry and setup. IMO keep it simple when ever you can. And please, do tell us how you solved the problem.

 

[Winton]

TL;DR: go with in-ear monitors

As a classically-trained vocalist, one thing I was taught was that how we hear ourselves (without earplugs, of course) is different from how we actually sound. It’s just like when we hear our spoken voice played back for the first time and we think we sound weird. Earplugs shut out the actual sonic interactions of music and limits all that you can hear, that’s why it’s hard to stay in tune as a singer. So just imagine the conundrum your wife is in as a drummer who has to play loud and her body/voice naturally fighting the loud drums.

With in-ear monitors, at least you’ll be able to clearly hear what is going on outside of your head, including your own voice. So that’s what I recommend.

 

[Killing Floor]

Maybe opposite direction but have you looked at electronic drums? They can sound good and be played lower volume.

 

[poppunk]

TL;DR: go with in-ear monitors

As a classically-trained vocalist, one thing I was taught was that how we hear ourselves (without earplugs, of course) is different from how we actually sound. It’s just like when we hear our spoken voice played back for the first time and we think we sound weird. Earplugs shut out the actual sonic interactions of music and limits all that you can hear, that’s why it’s hard to stay in tune as a singer. So just imagine the conundrum your wife is in as a drummer who has to play loud and her body/voice naturally fighting the loud drums.

With in-ear monitors, at least you’ll be able to clearly hear what is going on outside of your head, including your own voice. So that’s what I recommend.

Support this all the way. I started having to do vocals seriously two years ago (along with getting legit voice lessons), and the IEMs have made all the difference in the world. Hearing myself through the IEM is like hearing a recording of myself, because it removes the internal sound/perception of my voice and I hear the actual thing. I can actually hear what I'm doing with my resonance, support, as well as pitch/intonation.

No more trying to scream over the music through the PA at reharsal because it feeds back to to a small space and loud band. And I bring my own mic and split it so the IEM is always the same (mixed with one band with a click through our XR18 or in my individual setup with just my modeler). It's the same experience, every single time.

A good setup is to use a custom fit earplug in one ear and a custom fit IEM in the other. You can always hear what is going on around you but have one side really focused on your stuff.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

The best solution would probably be as you mentioned, IEMs.

I'm a bit surprised actually, as earplugs make it MUCH easier for me to sing in key. Its like the old holding one ear so the sound vibrates in our skull. If that's NOT happening with her, and IEMs are too complicated (which they can be), this is the best I can come up with...

First, have her try different earplugs. Either the big fat thick drugstore kind (they make my skull vibrate most), or musician types that can be found on Amazon for not a whole lot of money. They allow for a lot more frequencies to enter. I found a decent set for around $25, after a lot of research. I'd also check how she's putting them in her ears, as I've noticed some people have strange and interesting ways of doing that.

My second, and probably better, suggestion would be to make sure she has a monitor next to her that she can hear the guitar clearly. My best guess is that with the earplugs in all she's hearing is drums, and that's what's causing the problem.

Hope some of that helped. Its all I've got .

3M Push-Ins™ Earplugs - Uncorded S-18078 - Uline

These are the kind that finally made it so I can hear. I can hear my voice, my cabinet, and the whole band way better with these than any other brand of plugs I've ever tried. They rarely make noises associated with moving in my ear and they seal up amazingly well.

I hope OP finds what they need.

 

[jj.833]

She's fine with them out

In ears will most likely solve it. The only setback is that you change one loud sound for another. If you buy custom in ears (with custom cushions), the neccessary volume can significantly drop down.

There's another aspect. In my experience, the reason why singers sometimes take one ear out is to hear the real acoustic sound of the band. They feel that the artificial mixed sound is not driving them to deliver the right feeling. If you don't feel right, you sing wrong. So when you buy the in ears, be prepared the solution won't come instantly. With in ears, you need to learn to project your voice in a different way. Myself, I never was able to do it (but luckily I'm no singer). Also, you might need to redefine your sound system for a better overall quality.

The human perception of own voice is not straight forward. Your head combines what your ears hear, as well as the sound that comes to your ear from inside your head (meaning physically, sound passing through bones). You can test it: make a cone of your hands in front of your mouth, as if you want to shout at somebody in distance, go outside, and sing something short agains a wall. You'll likely hear a different voice than the one you are used to. This voice you hear is the 'real' voice of yours, meaning that this is what others hear. I know quite a few singers who practise this way from time to time.

 

[two fingers]

Yeah go with IEMs. And then have her give herself SIX WEEKS to get used to them. Use them no matter what for 6 weeks. They really take some getting used to.

I've also read lots of pkaces that using one IEM and leaving the other out causes people to jack up their monitors for the one ear and cause MORE hearing damage.

To help her get used to them set up a room mic. A condenser mic should work fine. Many don't like IEMs to begin with because they feel like their heads are in a bucket. With a room mic you get some ambiance but with control on how loud it is.

If you go with universal fit (not molded) order some Comply brand tips. Get the variety pack first so she can try all three sizes to see what fits best.

But really encourage her to use them for 6 weeks before trashing them. We're going through it now with our female singer. She used them at a gig for the first time ever on Saturday night. She hates them. BUT, she sang even better than she ever has (and she was pretty dang good before). We just couldn't get her mix right and didn't have a room mic. Next time we'll have a mic mounted to one of our light trees so she can dial in the room some.

But IEMs are your solution, no question (unless she can live with over the ear headphones, but I know nothing about those).

 

[DanGroove]

Pulling one earlplug or monitor out is a bad idea and will lead to hearing damage. I never felt the need to pull one out to sing better. When I went to in-ears it actually improved my pitch.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

How about electronic drums?
Volume problems will be solved as well.

Proper monitoring and mix will help.

And of course, practice, practice, practice.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

before moving to more pricy solutions, my first question is what kind of earplugs is she using. old fashioned foam ones that just close up your ear or some kind of decibel reducing ones that still let sound through?

 

[poppunk]

I've also read lots of pkaces that using one IEM and leaving the other out causes people to jack up their monitors for the one ear and cause MORE hearing damage.

Yes, this is a path that leads to significant hearing damage. That's why I like the custom plug for one ear (reasonably flat attenuation, just makes things quieter) and the single IEM driver in the other ear (I also have a custom shell for this, but the foam was working fine except for not staying in and being sub-optimal in frequency response). Everything coming in the plugged ear is quiet, so you don't have to have the volume high in the IEM, and then you also get some bleed into the IEM side to help with the ambient sound a little when it's not up so high.

 

[JES]

So, I'm now getting to the point in the thread where I'm interested in recommendations for IEMs. What do people like, dislike, and how do you shop for them in a pandemic?

As I said earlier in the thread, we currently use etymotic er20xs earplugs, which work great for everything except, apparently, singing in tune (I don't sing). Electronic drums aren't an option.

In the meantime, for the next practice, I will try two things: headphones from the mixer (which is just vocals) over her earplugs to see if that helps. Headphone alone of course won't protect her hearing.

Also, she does have a monitor next to her that we could turn on, but there are feedback issues because it is so close to the mic, and the mic picks up some drum sound (especially the snare). We use a head mounted hypercardioid, but sound is unruly like that. But we can mess with it and see what's possible.

 

[mikecd1]

Westone and Earasers are my favorite earplugs and I have no problems singing with them in. With the drop in decibels it takes a little getting used to the new sound, but overall its easier to get my pitch with the earplugs in than competing with loud sounds from the band.

 

[Matty Koff]

While IEMS are ideal aesthetically, a set of circumaural cans can be just as effective. I spent the last year with a group and we spent all our time in BeyerDynamic DT 770M's. Capable of being ear damagingly loud, but also -25dB from the outside world. The ear protection I wear to the shooting range are -25dB.

The best part about playing with them was the lack of ear fatigue at the end of rehearsal.