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Sire vs KSD proto J

#41
I have had a KSD Proto 5 for many years now, and for the money I spent on all the modifications I could have bought a "high end " bass. And the time invested, pretty crazy ...
Still it's my main bass and I have a few other really great ones to choose from.I have it tuned E to C with a two stage D tuner on the E string. I love it. But there are many much better choices than a KSD, They are not the kind of bass that is ready to go right out of the box.It takes commitment and money. The Sire seems to be a really well thought out bass that you can gig with right away and there seems to be customer service too, which you would not get with KSD.
 
#42
Z
gimmeagig said:
I have had a KSD Proto 5 for many years now, and for the money I spent on all the modifications I could have bought a "high end " bass. And the time invested, pretty crazy ...
Still it's my main bass and I have a few other really great ones to choose from.I have it tuned E to C with a two stage D tuner on the E string. I love it. But there are many much better choices than a KSD, They are not the kind of bass that is ready to go right out of the box.It takes commitment and money. The Sire seems to be a really well thought out bass that you can gig with right away and there seems to be customer service too, which you would not get with KSD.
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I didnt have the option to get a Sire as they dont make fretless baases. So I got a fretless proto 70s proto J. I am accustomed to modding basses & updating parts & was prepared to do so given some of the bad TB reviews. My biggest concern was that the action would be limited by peaks & valleys in the fingerboard
And also with a Chinese bass the strength of the truss rod is a concern.

I was pleasantly surprised
Here's a break it down:

SOUND: I was shooting for 2 sounds. The singing Marcus Miler sound inspired by 'I loves you porgy' & the Jaco sound. I heard such bad things about the active electronics. Out of the box in the passive mode the 'alnico' pups were weak (doubt they are alnico Vs). Dissapointing that you couldn't turn down the tone to facilitate the Jaco sound (bridge pup only, treble off). However, the active preamp helped me get the sound I want. Based on the negative reviews I planned on going passive & putting an extra pair of Carvim J99a pups in--externalizing the EQ. But for now it works, the sound is nutral. Not lean like Squier preamps, not veiled like Ibanez. Ibanez active preamps sound robust, but they veil & smooth the treble so you can't hear the metalic Klang or growl of round wound strings. Concievably when I do put in those Carvins in they might not interface well with that preamp & sound boomy. Out of the box I can boost the bass & it isn't boomy. Just right!

Nut: generic plastic Fender- like. OK

Bridge: adequate sustain, why change?

Neck(biggest concern fingerboard evenness) smooth & even ebanol fingerboard! Wideness & flatness of radius? Has its tradeoffs. I have several basses & have learned to make quick adjustments.

Strength/durability of TR? Time might tell!

Haven't used it much. Questionable whether I will ever get to play Continuum or Brazilluan Wedding Song in public
 
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#44
I still take a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach. I can't see too much wrong with my proto 70s J, & I dont quite get the negativity towards them. Maybe later models got mproved. However I haven't played it much. In time familiarity just might breed contempt.

I do understand the customer support thing. I couldn't get any info about the Alnico pickups when inquiring. But as stated, I was prepared to switch out the pickups & go passive anyway. Outside of electronics, no motor-like parts to wear out. But the truss rod is something to concern myself over.

Also, my favorite tone wood combo is ash/maple, but ebanol/alder has a hard definitive sound too. I was worried the combination might be too bright, but no.
 
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#46
DWBass said:
Yeah, early on there were neck related issues as well as body weight. Consistently over 10lbs but this was years ago. I think I recall noisy preamps too, IIRC.
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All 3 of my 34" scale Jazz basses are about 10 lbs or more. No problem. My present luthier always says his favorite basses are heavy

Even my basswood Squire DJAV is about 10 lbs after using a massive 6 string Wammi bridge to convert it to 6 strings. My Marcus Miller bass is 10 lbs. This KSD 70s Proto J is quite heavy. I didn't think Alder got that heavy. But again, I think of a bass as a tool & it does the job.
 
#47
This is am addendum. It seems maybe that the newer KSDs are much improved. One issue isn't quite the neck width per se. On my fretless the radius is fairly flat, and there is a considerable space between the edges & the outer strings. One problem is that those edges are razor sharp. My luthier is rectifying that now by standing down those ebanol edge sides. Otherwise no problems....yet.
 
#48
DWBass said:
Not true. Ken Smith is being paid for the use of his name on the product. He does not build nor support the instruments and he will tell you that at the drop of a hat! The photos of him on their website are misleading.
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I know I don't have much to back up this statement, but Ken Smith is a dick. A few months after KSD came out as a brand and was being advertised, I made the mistake of calling the regular Ken Smith business phone #. Ken Smith answered. Super polite I start with something like "I had a question about one of your basses. On the KSD Proto J version, does it....." and that was it. I got laid into. Hard. "Why are you bothering me with this?!?! I DO NOT have anything to do with those basses!! I do not make them! Don't ever call here again with blah blah blah, etc.!!!" and then hung up on me.

I was like wow. Granted I dialed the wrong # but that's how you talk to a potential customer? Someone that was interested in buying something with YOUR name attached to it? Way to go in terms of turning me off towards Ken Smith products.

5 days later I bought a Zon Sonus V. And then a Zon Sonus Special IV. Now when you call Zon and Joe answers the phone....completely different story. Joe would talk to you for an hour if required to answer any and all questions.

Mod note: Ken Smith is unable to reply, but emailed us to say that he doesn't yell or get upset or hang up on anyone. Ever.​
 
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#49
DWBass said:
Not true. Ken Smith is being paid for the use of his name on the product. He does not build nor support the instruments and he will tell you that at the drop of a hat! The photos of him on their website are misleading.
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Wow. I owned one about 9 or 10 years ago. It was a fiver jazz that played very well but had a substantial enough neck to think it was a little big for me.
 
#50
One problem with my fretless is that after setting it up with Fatbeams it warps again immediately. My Fatbeams have way less tension (105 80 60 40) than the original hex core medium gauge strings (105 85 65 45) & I hope this is a gradual reaction to diminished tension (when I first put on those Fatbeams they were restibg against the fingerboard. Otherwise it is a sign of a weak defective TR?
 
#51
lovethegrowl said:
One problem with my fretless is that after setting it up with Fatbeams it warps again immediately. My Fatbeams have way less tension (105 80 60 40) than the original hex core medium gauge strings (105 85 65 45) & I hope this is a gradual reaction to diminished tension (when I first put on those Fatbeams they were restibg against the fingerboard. Otherwise it is a sign of a weak defective TR?
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Have you readjusted the truss rod? Is it a warp (twist which is bad) or just a bow which is expected?

Sounds like a bad neck or TR to me, but if it's just a bow and the TR hasn't been adjusted then you just need a setup.
 
#55
Thir13teen said:
I know I don't have much to back up this statement, but Ken Smith is a dick. A few months after KSD came out as a brand and was being advertised, I made the mistake of calling the regular Ken Smith business phone #. Ken Smith answered. Super polite I start with something like "I had a question about one of your basses. On the KSD Proto J version, does it....." and that was it. I got laid into. Hard. "Why are you bothering me with this?!?! I DO NOT have anything to do with those basses!! I do not make them! Don't ever call here again with blah blah blah, etc.!!!" and then hung up on me.

I was like wow. Granted I dialed the wrong # but that's how you talk to a potential customer? Someone that was interested in buying something with YOUR name attached to it? Way to go in terms of turning me off towards Ken Smith products.

5 days later I bought a Zon Sonus V. And then a Zon Sonus Special IV. Now when you call Zon and Joe answers the phone....completely different story. Joe would talk to you for an hour if required to answer any and all questions.

Mod note: Ken Smith is unable to reply, but emailed us to say that he doesn't yell or get upset or hang up on anyone. Ever.​
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Just for the record, I had a very similar experience when I called Ken Smith about my Proto J bass.He was downright rude to me.
I did order a bridge from him years ago and one of his employees helped me.That guy was nice, but Ken?...not so much.
I would never buy a bass from him, I'd be worried about being treated badly if there were any issues.I play Moon, Atelier Z and Modulus basses.
I still have the KSD but noone would ever recognize it as such. After I changed absolutely everything on it. Now it's a great instrument.
 
#56
gimmeagig said:
Just for the record, I had a very similar experience when I called Ken Smith about my Proto J bass.He was downright rude to me.
I did order a bridge from him years ago and one of his employees helped me.That guy was nice, but Ken?...not so much.
I would never buy a bass from him, I'd be worried about being treated badly if there were any issues.I play Moon, Atelier Z and Modulus basses.
I still have the KSD but noone would ever recognize it as such. After I changed absolutely everything on it. Now it's a great instrument.
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It looks like he sold his name & that is it! On a level he might be powerless to prod the company into honoring the warranty & fixing stuff. I am not defending his rudeness: & if he is reticent to lend information he is aware of then..........

Prior to making the ebay purchase, I called Jason @ BSO & Jason (really big on Ken Smith) told me that it should be a good instrument because if it has Smith's name on it he would not be associated with it (paraphrasing). I now know the opposite based on testimony here. For Shiggles I sent a Facebook "friend" request to Smith along with a message inquiring his present Symphonic playing experience (I am a classical guy myself) & he graciously messages back & bragged about being an independent contractor who hasn't done a union gig since 1988! He accepted my friend request & I am almost afraid to take the inquiry (about unions) any further.

I will say that the company is shady! After my ourchase II made an inquiry about the pickups asking if they are Alnico 2s, 3s, 5s & although the sales rep

As for the instrument I am 98% sure that the TR will be strong enough (based on testimony here again: one fixable issue on this thread concerning the TR nut).

Sorry for being redundant, but to repeat myself: 1) I am not concerned about hardware, no high mass bridge as I have enough sustain. The tuners either work or not. 2) I guess those pickups are Alnicoo 2s, not as punchy as an Alnico 5. But the active electronics interface well with those pickups (lots of prior complaints apparently made them improve those active electronics?) & the instrument lends itself well to additional EQing. 3) neck radius is pretty flat for a jazz bass & that is why it is perceived as too wide for a jazz bass (yeah a little extra room on the edges). Those edges are sharp & I had to bevel them, but no problem. That said the 7.5" radius of my Marcus Miller bass is so damn comfortable & fits my hand so well. That said, if the neck settles down & stays straight the bass can be very playable & get the sound I want. (Maybe later I will put some Carvin JVAs in & go passive (externally EQing with my MXR 108
 
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#57
[QUOTE="Eilif, post: 17974938, member: 185 I hope you get the neck worked out.
However, there are other good mid-priced fretless options besides KSD.[/QUOTE]


Other than that Squire sunburst (yuck!) Jaco relic what is there? (Should'be bought the Squire, good bang for the buck used about $200 @ G.C., but sunburst?)

I have an SX fretless with a bumpy fingerboard that needs to be redressed, never an SX again!. Conversely my KSD ebanol fingerboard is perfectly shaped & has a great feel. If this neck problem persists I WILL get my $500 back. In that case can you recommend a goid mid priced fretless jazz bass?
 
#58
lovethegrowl said:
Other than that Squire sunburst (yuck!) Jaco relic what is there? (Should'be bought the Squire, good bang for the buck used about $200 @ G.C., but sunburst?)
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Admittedly, if you have to have a Jazz your options are alot less, but if you're net is wider than that and you're limit is the price of a KSD proto ($700).
-MIM J fretless
-ESP LTD 214 fretless (A fretless P/J) my current fretless
-MTD Kingston
-Ibanez SR 370 and 375
-Schechter Stiletto
-Italia something or other...
-LTD B205 and B205
-Carvin Kit bass
-Cort Curbow
-Cort B4

And if you go used, your options just explode. Lots of Carvins (I've got on on the Classifieds right now), some skylines (44 or 55-01 series, I love these) possibly a MIJ fender, Ibanez GB, etc...

If you're willing to swap bodies, you can easily have a squire of your color choice for not much more than retail after you assemble or just sell off the remaining parts.
 
#59
Yeah it has to be a jazz. No LTD'S. I have an Ibanez SR 406 & HATE it! Never again an Ibanez. Smooth sounding active eqs, & soap bar puckups that are not standard sizes & can't be swapped out. Only single coil pickyp for me anyway. I like rough & scooped. Never any humbucker. Carvins are pricy too. Used ones sell for lots. I'd omly get tgeir Jazz style basses.

Getting a Squire Jaco relic & swapping necks is an option. Already the action is high! This neck won't stay stable!
 
#60
lovethegrowl said:
Yeah it has to be a jazz. No LTD'S. I have an Ibanez SR 406 & HATE it! Never again an Ibanez. Smooth sounding active eqs, & soap bar puckups that are not standard sizes & can't be swapped out. Only single coil pickyp for me anyway. I like rough & scooped. Never any humbucker. Carvins are pricy too. Used ones sell for lots. I'd omly get tgeir Jazz style basses.

Getting a Squire Jaco relic & swapping necks is an option. Already the action is high! This neck won't stay stable!
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Sorry the neck is still giving you problems.

Yeah, the Carvin Jazz's are new enough that there aren't any cheap one's on the used market. Afforcable LB's are plentiful, but they clearly aren't Jazz style basses. Alot of them do have dual J pickups though.

Are you set on the Jazz body or neck or both? Swapping Squire parts is probably your best bet. If you decide just to buy the individual parts they show up on TB and Ebay all the time, but if you buy 2 new basses, you can go to GC and pick out the best example. If it's just the J style you want and you're open to P necks, the Mighty Mite ebanol fretless neck seems to get good reviews. You can get a Mighty Mite neck for less than what you can sell the stock squire neck for!

Shame about the No LTD's or P/J's, the Vintage 214 fretless is a sweet, well-made classic fretless P-clone!
 

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