:scowl:
Next time he picks up a sax (i'm assuming he is a wind teacher), ask him if he could eventually get good enough to play the clarinet.
Then you RUN...you run so far away...
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Six string verses a Four string in jazz.
- Thread starter Goldfish
- Start date
:scowl:
Next time he picks up a sax (i'm assuming he is a wind teacher), ask him if he could eventually get good enough to play the clarinet.
Then you RUN...you run so far away...
I can't speak for every single sixer out there, but this is one major reason I enjoy the sixer. No need to jump all over the place. I can also play in the 5th position, which effectively turns it into a very nice short scale bass.
Most jazz [classical as well] bass and guitar instructors insist upon one gaining proficiency moving up and down the neck. "Parking" in one postition is heavily frowned upon.
I'll stop now because I'm repeating myself.
They can frown on me as much as they want. I'll take efficiency over their definition of proficiency. Jumping around is fun n' stuff (and I can definitely do it), but no need to beat myself up. A night easy on my hands takes precedence over the opinion that "parking it" is too easy. Do they also frown on an automatic garage door opener?
The way i see it is:
1) He didn't like the way the bass sounded or how you played it, as in he doesn't like bassists playing high notes.
or
2) He's more concerned about the bands image.
Either way he made himself sound really ignorant in terms of basses. What I would do is go back to him and ask exactly what he didn't like about the 6 string and then proceed too show him a video of John Patitucci. That or see if you can borrow Yves Carbonne's 13 string bass for show and tell and ready your camera
Personally, I think 6 strings open up a lot more possibilities in jazz, chords, comping, improvisation, more tonal options without having to move around so much and so on, which is why i'm learning to play 6ers ^^
1) He didn't like the way the bass sounded or how you played it, as in he doesn't like bassists playing high notes.
or
2) He's more concerned about the bands image.
Either way he made himself sound really ignorant in terms of basses. What I would do is go back to him and ask exactly what he didn't like about the 6 string and then proceed too show him a video of John Patitucci. That or see if you can borrow Yves Carbonne's 13 string bass for show and tell and ready your camera
Personally, I think 6 strings open up a lot more possibilities in jazz, chords, comping, improvisation, more tonal options without having to move around so much and so on, which is why i'm learning to play 6ers ^^
This is the first I've heard of someone referring to a six as a crutch. Interesting POV and one I don't happen to share.
It shouldn't take much thought to realize that people can play more notes in a position AND still be able to move around the neck and play more notes more easily in other positions too. It's not an either/or situation.
It shouldn't take much thought to realize that people can play more notes in a position AND still be able to move around the neck and play more notes more easily in other positions too. It's not an either/or situation.
Many people use extra strings so they don't have to move up and down the neck. "Boxy" thinking if you ask me, but to each his own.
When is all said and done, the bands music director is the boss. If the boss wants the room painted blue, ya best get the brush going, or youre going to be out of a job
Same thing here. If the director wants a four stringer, give him a four stringer. That will get you in the door, and making music.
In my mind, I think the director is off base for not giving his student a good try at making this work and he needs to expand his working knowledge of musical instruments he THINKS he is an expert on
Mr. Goldfish, give the man the four. It gets you in the door. Now, you can show him what you can do with a four thus giving yourself credibility. After a time, you can make suggestions and educate your instructor on the benefits of the six. It may take a while if ever
Good luck, and please keep us informed
TDY
In my mind, I think the director is off base for not giving his student a good try at making this work and he needs to expand his working knowledge of musical instruments he THINKS he is an expert on
Mr. Goldfish, give the man the four. It gets you in the door. Now, you can show him what you can do with a four thus giving yourself credibility. After a time, you can make suggestions and educate your instructor on the benefits of the six. It may take a while if ever
Good luck, and please keep us informed
TDY
This may be a dumb question but do you think your director may honestly think what your playing is a guitar?? I still, to this day (even from other musicians), sometimes am introduced as the guitar player when I'm playing my 6.. I dont know if they just dont pay attention on how much lower I'm playing or if they are ignorant (or both)..... Maybe your director just needs a polite education on the fact that electric basses have progressed past 4 string.
Also, with all due respect, just because you play six does not make you better. I'm not assume anything about your playing but maybe your director is noticing something lacking in your 6 string playing that isn't in your 4 string playing. If you go by this method, you can add 15,123,214 more strings and be better than any bass player ever.
So, to answer your questions..
Why would he be asking you to play 4?? Take into consideration what I mentioned above.
Which is better for jazz? There is no answer for this because neither is better than the other. My opinion, whats better is the one you feel more comfortable with, the one that is less of a hindrance to your playing, and the one that gets you the gig.
Also, with all due respect, just because you play six does not make you better. I'm not assume anything about your playing but maybe your director is noticing something lacking in your 6 string playing that isn't in your 4 string playing. If you go by this method, you can add 15,123,214 more strings and be better than any bass player ever.
So, to answer your questions..
Why would he be asking you to play 4?? Take into consideration what I mentioned above.
Which is better for jazz? There is no answer for this because neither is better than the other. My opinion, whats better is the one you feel more comfortable with, the one that is less of a hindrance to your playing, and the one that gets you the gig.
mikeyswood
Inactive
When is all said and done, the band’s music director is the boss. If the boss wants the room painted blue, ya best get the brush going, or you’re going to be out of a job… Same thing here. If the director wants a four stringer, give him a four stringer. That will get you in the door, and making music.
In my mind, I think the director is off base for not giving his student a good try at making this work and he needs to expand his working knowledge of musical instruments he THINKS he is an expert on…
Mr. Goldfish, give the man the four. It gets you in the door. Now, you can show him what you can do with a four thus giving yourself credibility. After a time, you can make suggestions and ‘educate’ your instructor on the benefits of the six. It may take a while if ever…
Good luck, and please keep us informed…
TDY
+5
So True.
That is the attitude that you must go in with. Then after you are in and respected you can begin to change the world.
It is tough to make a difference from the outside.
It could be worse...
A five or Six string BC Rich will always bring every stereotype out
When is all said and done, the bands music director is the boss. If the boss wants the room painted blue, ya best get the brush going, or youre going to be out of a job Same thing here. If the director wants a four stringer, give him a four stringer. That will get you in the door, and making music.
In my mind, I think the director is off base for not giving his student a good try at making this work and he needs to expand his working knowledge of musical instruments he THINKS he is an expert on
Mr. Goldfish, give the man the four. It gets you in the door. Now, you can show him what you can do with a four thus giving yourself credibility. After a time, you can make suggestions and educate your instructor on the benefits of the six. It may take a while if ever
Good luck, and please keep us informed
TDY
I would have said it differently, but in the end it comes down to this: you are not the band director.
I have 5 grown kids and what I'm going to say now is going to come off fatherly, but it's what I would have said to them in this same situation:
There will always be someone telling you what to do. Choose your battles wisely, but make SURE somewhere along the way you learn how to do what you are asked without grumbling. That is an important life skill and those who never learn it limit themselves in ways they don't understand.
And here's a free bonus. Your band leader may have some flaws, but everyone does. If I were in your position and music was important to me, I would do EVERYTHING he asked me and PICK his mind for every bit of knowledge he could give. Even if I determined most of what he thought he knew was wrong, I'd ask him to explain his position and then ACCEPT it (at least outwardly). Finally, I would not let a request that I could fill prevent me from playing in my high school band.
Whatever you do, have a PURPOSE (and no, trying to hurt him or the band by your absence is not at all what I mean, purpose BENEFITS SOMEbody) and make the decision with full knowledge of its impact. Please, please do not quit because he is a [fill in something stupid]. Sticking now is practice for later... when it will seriously matter. Trust me, you'll be here again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDYooper
When is all said and done, the band’s music director is the boss. If the boss wants the room painted blue, ya best get the brush going, or you’re going to be out of a job… Same thing here…
Good luck, and please keep us informed…
TDY
_________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabbler
I would have said it differently, but in the end it comes down to this: you are not the band director.
Sticking now is practice for later... when it will seriously matter. Trust me, you'll be here again.
__________________
These words he speaks are true…
I was a high ranking NCO in Uncle Sam’s ARMY, raised two kids of my own, and now own my own business… By listening to people, and giving them what they need, I have retired from the service, seen both my young ones into college, hired into a small lawn and garden equipment repair shop, and eventually bought the owner out.
It didn’t happen over night and I started by listening to the guy in charge, and giving him what he wanted. It gets you in the door. The, over time, changes can take place…
Good luck…
TDY
Originally Posted by TDYooper
When is all said and done, the band’s music director is the boss. If the boss wants the room painted blue, ya best get the brush going, or you’re going to be out of a job… Same thing here…
Good luck, and please keep us informed…
TDY
_________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabbler
I would have said it differently, but in the end it comes down to this: you are not the band director.
Sticking now is practice for later... when it will seriously matter. Trust me, you'll be here again.
__________________
These words he speaks are true…
I was a high ranking NCO in Uncle Sam’s ARMY, raised two kids of my own, and now own my own business… By listening to people, and giving them what they need, I have retired from the service, seen both my young ones into college, hired into a small lawn and garden equipment repair shop, and eventually bought the owner out.
It didn’t happen over night and I started by listening to the guy in charge, and giving him what he wanted. It gets you in the door. The, over time, changes can take place…
Good luck…
TDY
I think the reason behind his thinking could be one of the following two:
1) He is a traditional kind of guy and highly aware of aesthetics (since 4-string looks more traditional, esp. in jazz idiom).
2) He could be feel threatened by your higher register on a 6-string: you're no longer confined to the bass range and he thinks that you may step over the other alto instruments.
I don't agree with anything I just mentioned. I am simply trying to brainstorm what could have motivated him to act that way. In either case, he has no reason to bitch - a 6-string is even more "bass" than a 4-string, thanks to the low B.
And yes, dabbler is right. His post is wise. But I had to list my own opinion
1) He is a traditional kind of guy and highly aware of aesthetics (since 4-string looks more traditional, esp. in jazz idiom).
2) He could be feel threatened by your higher register on a 6-string: you're no longer confined to the bass range and he thinks that you may step over the other alto instruments.
I don't agree with anything I just mentioned. I am simply trying to brainstorm what could have motivated him to act that way. In either case, he has no reason to bitch - a 6-string is even more "bass" than a 4-string, thanks to the low B.
And yes, dabbler is right. His post is wise. But I had to list my own opinion
These words he speaks are true…
I was a high ranking NCO in Uncle Sam’s ARMY, raised two kids of my own, and now own my own business… By listening to people, and giving them what they need, I have retired from the service, seen both my young ones into college, hired into a small lawn and garden equipment repair shop, and eventually bought the owner out.
It didn’t happen over night and I started by listening to the guy in charge, and giving him what he wanted. It gets you in the door. The, over time, changes can take place…
Good luck…
TDY
It is fantastic that you have been so fortunate because you listened to people that had the right idea.
But that's the thing: THEY had the right idea.
The OP's band director is indeed the one in charge, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be spoken with. Jazz is about the music, not the looks. The music is better when the players use efficiency to their advantage, combined with technique of course. If this means switching to a six string, then he shouldn't be limited to that. If it makes his playing better, then it's better for the music.
The music is what counts. Yes, image is a factor that shouldn't be ignored, but that doesn't mean it should interfere with efficiency in playing.
Yes, there are the six string players that tend to stay in one position. But Spade stated that he is clearly able to slide around plenty, so that's not a problem.
What I'm basically saying is this: The band director wanted the OP to go to a four string because
And that, because of the fact that it has to do with image instead of the music, is not a valid reason to make him move from a six back to a four.
- Apr 1, 2000
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It is fantastic that you have been so fortunate because you listened to people that had the right idea.
But that's the thing: THEY had the right idea.
The OP's band director is indeed the one in charge, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be spoken with. Jazz is about the music, not the looks. The music is better when the players use efficiency to their advantage, combined with technique of course. If this means switching to a six string, then he shouldn't be limited to that. If it makes his playing better, then it's better for the music.
The music is what counts. Yes, image is a factor that shouldn't be ignored, but that doesn't mean it should interfere with efficiency in playing.
Yes, there are the six string players that tend to stay in one position. But Spade stated that he is clearly able to slide around plenty, so that's not a problem.
What I'm basically saying is this: The band director wanted the OP to go to a four string because
And that, because of the fact that it has to do with image instead of the music, is not a valid reason to make him move from a six back to a four.
You have missed my point completely...
The band director needs to open his eyes, and make changes
The OP CAN NOT make any changes, if he does NOT get the job
The OP needs to audition for the job, and do the job, as the boss directs
AFTER establishing credibility, the OP may be able to influence the boss, and (IF the boss is willing) make some changes
If the BOSS is NOT willing, the OP has the option to go along with the bosss program, or drop from the project
If the OP is NOT willing to do what the boss wants, another will be selected, and the OPs chances to make the changes or improvements, will be lost
This is NOT about music. Its about doing what the boss wants done, his way
TDY
