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sixties sound

S

sansa

Feb 20, 2013
46
0
#1
Hi everyone. I'd understand what kind of amplifications and speakers were used in the past.
I know the fender bassman was originally designed for Pbass but then used for guitar. It has got a really mid sound actually and I really like. But what kind of copies of this amp we can afford now? what kind of speakers is the right equal to this sound?
Thank you very much!

PS: I saw the eminence CA154 would be a right one for the sound But I guess it needs less circumference like the bassman LTD cab that is 10". You agree with me?
 
#2
Let's not overthink this.

In other words, the Bassman wasn't really designed with the Pbass in mind, and it wasn't designed to produce any particular "sound". Leo Fender just wanted to sell amps (and sell his guitars and basses). And he wasn't an expert at designing these amps, though he had a background in radio repair. So for his amps, he just copied standard amplifier circuits that had slowly evolved over the years. He didn't select components based on rigid scientific analysis or listening tests, he used standard designs and bought the components that would fit his price range (inexpensive).

For bass, the Bassman really was a flop. Guitarists liked its sound though when it was cranked up.

Kinda the same way with the speaker designs of the day. There was no computer modeling, no careful spectral analysis. Companies made standard low-power speakers that got pressed into service at higher volumes and lower frequencies. A few companies tried tweaking their design to handle more power and lower frequencies, like JBL's Harvey Gerst as he developed the D140F, but again, he wasn't aiming for a certain "sound", he was just trying to make a speaker that didn't burn up at higher volumes.

And with no cabinet modeling software and no knowledge of Thiele-Small parameters, companies just shoved speakers in a box, only a few companies actually noticed "hey this speaker has more uniform response in a closed box of 5 cu ft volume than when we put it in an open-back enclosure".
 
#3
The term "sixties sound" is vague. It would help if you were more specific about who's sound you are looking to emulate.

There also can be a difference between what amps were used for recording and which amps were used at large venues.
 
#4
beans-on-toast said:
The term "sixties sound" is vague. It would help if you were more specific about who's sound you are looking to emulate.

There also can be a difference between what amps were used for recording and which amps were used at large venues.
Click to expand...

ok I liked the brian wilson (beach boys) sound, the early mccartney sound too... but I think this can be summed up with more mids and less lows!
 
#5
nashvillebill said:
Let's not overthink this.

In other words, the Bassman wasn't really designed with the Pbass in mind, and it wasn't designed to produce any particular "sound". Leo Fender just wanted to sell amps (and sell his guitars and basses). And he wasn't an expert at designing these amps, though he had a background in radio repair. So for his amps, he just copied standard amplifier circuits that had slowly evolved over the years. He didn't select components based on rigid scientific analysis or listening tests, he used standard designs and bought the components that would fit his price range (inexpensive).

For bass, the Bassman really was a flop. Guitarists liked its sound though when it was cranked up.

Kinda the same way with the speaker designs of the day. There was no computer modeling, no careful spectral analysis. Companies made standard low-power speakers that got pressed into service at higher volumes and lower frequencies. A few companies tried tweaking their design to handle more power and lower frequencies, like JBL's Harvey Gerst as he developed the D140F, but again, he wasn't aiming for a certain "sound", he was just trying to make a speaker that didn't burn up at higher volumes.

And with no cabinet modeling software and no knowledge of Thiele-Small parameters, companies just shoved speakers in a box, only a few companies actually noticed "hey this speaker has more uniform response in a closed box of 5 cu ft volume than when we put it in an open-back enclosure".
Click to expand...

I don't think the bassman can be defined as a flop... Anyway I saw many bassists used fender amps in the sixties. do you know the models they used? I read somewhere it was the showman was a good one. wasn't it?
 
#6
Many bassists used Fender amps (as well as a few others) in the 60's because they were higher wattage than what Ampeg was making. Back in the 60's, Ampeg's original owner still owned it and he HATED loud music and refused to allow anything much more powerful than the B-15, which severely limited their market. If he hadn't sold Ampeg in 1967, there would have been no SVT.

The Bassman heads were pretty great. The cabs were crap for anything but low volume live playing and studio work, though.
 
#7
I don't think you need to get an old amp to get a '60's sound. It's about the right bass, flatwounds and tecnique. Amp and speaker selection certainly make a difference, I would avoid using any tweeters/hf drivers and maybe lean in the direction of 12's or 15's.

If you are looking for that tube experience at a lower cost than a 60's Fender you might look into the Music Man and Traynor amps from the late 60's to mid-70's.
 
#8
Carol Kaye played a Fender Super Reverb, which had a 410 open back like the tweed Bassman in the early days when she recorded for Brian Wilson. McCartney recorded with several different VOX amps and later a Fender Bassman. I have a 59 Bassman that I use with bass cabs instead of the 410, I like the tone a lot.

I think that the studio equipment played a big roll in the tone. As was mentioned, flats and technique including muting was part of the tone. The Hofner 500/1 bass has a unique tone although McCartney used other instruments such as a Jazz Bass and the 4001S in the 60's.

You might find this thread interesting. There are other TB threads like it.

In the early 60's many bass players had small low power amps. The amps were pushed and played on the edge of distortion. In part players were just trying to be heard. If you had money you often got a Fender amp. In the mid to late 60's there were more companies selling bass amps. Amps and cabs started getting bigger and more powerful. People started using multiple amps and even PA amps and cabs for bass. It was a time of incredible changes and that applied to amps as much as what was going on in the world.

In terms of a more mid range tone, Thiele based cabinets can accentuate the mids with the right speaker in them. This might give you what you are looking for. For the most part 60's amps were tube based but you can get the tone with just about any modern amp. Of course, we are living in a time where reissue instruments and amps are about as good as you can get. So you have your choice of vintage or modern. Both will get you the tone that you are looking for.

I'm stuck in the past with my 50 year old B-15N and other vintage amps. The B15 is probably the most recorded amp out there. I suggest that you try a late 60's (after 68) or early 70's B-15N that came with a Thiele cabinet. If you want a modern amp, try an Ampeg PF-500.
 
#17
I played in the late 60's most bass players were using Bassman Amp Heads with 2X12 cab. This was good enough for high school dances and smaller clubs. Some were using Dual Showman Amps with 2X15s. I actually had an early Super Bassman that I got in '69 that had 2X15s. A fair amount of recordings were done with Ampeg B15s I believe. I don't recall ever seeing a bassist using the 4X10 Bass combo amp live.
 
#18
Passive electronics, flat wound strings, maybe even a hollow body bass, these things will help get s "60s" sound. If you can afford it, get an Ampeg B-15 amp, or get an Ampeg B100R, that gets a nice warm tone.

I just bought an all tune Fender Bassman 20 which gets a nice vintage tone.

Remember, 60s bass players, at least early to mid 60s, were not playing LOUD to the levels of needing 300 or 500 watts. McCartney's VOX was a 60 watt amp.
 

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