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Double Bass Small Affordable Recorder

#161
Tbeers said:
Another good bet is the M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96, which sells online for $399 (e.g. Invalid Link Removed). It has no internal microphone, but it includes a small external one. It records to 24-bit/96kHz, unlike the Edirol which does 24/48. Also has much more variety of inputs, including digital audio in, and both 1/4" and 1/8" mic/line inputs. Provides phantom power if needed. Has RCA outs and a 1/8" headphone out. Also, of course, a USB out port. Comes with Audacity software CD (I understand it's a free program anyway, but still nice of them to include install media). Overall I think the M-Audio appears to be a higher end product for just a bit more money. I've never tried the Edirol R-09, though. M-Audio is a wonderful company. Edirol is good, too. I've bought products made by both. Make your own decision, but don't overlook the M-Audio. It's a truly professional-grade piece of equipment.
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I stopped by a local retailer to look at these in person this afternoon, and was told that the retail price of the M-Audio 24/96 has been reduced by $100, from $400 to $300.

The M-Audio looked like it would be a great unit, with more versatile inputs, and the ability to record at twice the "density" of the Edirol.

My immediate concern after looking at both of them was that, because the microphones for the M-Audio unit plug in (instead of being built in as they are on the Edirol), I'd be more apt to lose them.

Anyone in a position to compare the two units, taking into account both their performance and the price difference?
 
#162
#163
#166
I bought an Edirol R-09 and have been very happy with its performance. However, in order to make a recording that captures the sounds of our six-piece (electric) band without clipping, I need to place the unit so far away from the band that I can't get to it to stop recording between songs.

I looked at the Edirol website and the companion corded microphone has a very short cord (~60"). Does anyone know of a suitable microphone, that can be connected to the Edirol through its 1/8" mini plug, and has a cord that's at least 15' long?

If not, does anyone have another method that might work for us?

Thanks!
 
#167
Jazzdogg said:
I bought an Edirol R-09 and have been very happy with its performance. However, in order to make a recording that captures the sounds of our six-piece (electric) band without clipping, I need to place the unit so far away from the band that I can't get to it to stop recording between songs.

I looked at the Edirol website and the companion corded microphone has a very short cord (~60"). Does anyone know of a suitable microphone, that can be connected to the Edirol through its 1/8" mini plug, and has a cord that's at least 15' long?

If not, does anyone have another method that might work for us?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Build a 1/8" stereo male to female cord long enough to make an external mic work for ya. Doing that you might wanna consider a battery powered condenser mic to help avoid signal loss down a long run of cable. A cable like that will also work as an extension for anything using an 1/8" stereo plug like head phones, computer speakers etc....actually it's such a useful thing to have around you've inspired me to go get the parts and build one this afternoon!
 
#168
jbonny said:
Build a 1/8" stereo male to female cord long enough to make an external mic work for ya. Doing that you might wanna consider a battery powered condenser mic to help avoid signal loss down a long run of cable. A cable like that will also work as an extension for anything using an 1/8" stereo plug like head phones, computer speakers etc....actually it's such a useful thing to have around you've inspired me to go get the parts and build one this afternoon!
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Having no experience with microphones, I was concerned about screwing something up with multiple connectors, improper cable, overlong cable runs, etc.
 
#169
Jazzdogg said:
I bought an Edirol R-09 and have been very happy with its performance. However, in order to make a recording that captures the sounds of our six-piece (electric) band without clipping, I need to place the unit so far away from the band that I can't get to it to stop recording between songs.

I looked at the Edirol website and the companion corded microphone has a very short cord (~60"). Does anyone know of a suitable microphone, that can be connected to the Edirol through its 1/8" mini plug, and has a cord that's at least 15' long?

If not, does anyone have another method that might work for us?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I've been considering the Edirol, but was concerned about this. My band is fairly loud on stage, som I'm guessing it wouldn't work for me. Maybe the Zoom H4 can handle input levels a little better. Has anyone recorded a live rock band on-stage with one?
 
#170
Jazzdogg said:
I bought an Edirol R-09 and have been very happy with its performance. However, in order to make a recording that captures the sounds of our six-piece (electric) band without clipping, I need to place the unit so far away from the band that I can't get to it to stop recording between songs.

I looked at the Edirol website and the companion corded microphone has a very short cord (~60"). Does anyone know of a suitable microphone, that can be connected to the Edirol through its 1/8" mini plug, and has a cord that's at least 15' long?

If not, does anyone have another method that might work for us?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you using the low setting on the back? I could see how high volume could be a problem. I use the low setting and I play in bands with moderate volumes.
 
#172
jbonny said:
Don't these things have an input level you can adjust?
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Yes. It has a two setting high/low switch on the back that does a gross setting, and then an input level on the side for finer adjustment.

But you want to set the input level as high as you can without clipping. Getting that just right when you are trying to play at the same time can be hard ;)
 
#173
seanm said:
But you want to set the input level as high as you can without clipping. Getting that just right when you are trying to play at the same time can be hard ;)
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I hear ya. I used to have exactly this problem with a minidisk recorder and sometimes I hit it right on and sometimes it sounded like I ran it through a fuzz pedal. Don't know the fine points of how your recorder functions but for me going from auto recording level to manual with visual level metering AND checking it with headphones got consistently usable results. The hardest part though was always to quit thinking about it when it was time to play....nothing like getting a great recording with a bunch of stinky bass notes. :rollno:
 
#174
My understanding is that this "high as you can without clipping" business applies to analog tape. If you don't hit that with lots of signal you get too much tape hiss.

In Digital Land, you don't have to do that. Too little signal? It's a drag for monitoring right on the spot, but you just run the file through the computer and bump up the volume after the fact. All the detail you want is there.

I've had decent results -- we're not talking hi-fi, releasable for sale results -- just putting the unit down on stage and taking the stage sound. I've even done this with a really LOUD band, sneaking the unit in under the keyboards away from the drummers. It's what it sounds like on stage.
 
#175
The issues I'm concerned with have to do with signal-to-noise ratio and positioning the Edirol - or a remote microphone - so that the band is recorded with a good balance of instruments and voices.

Additionally, I'd prefer to record each song as a separate file to make editing less of a chore; something I can't do if the recorder is several feet away.

A remote microphone on a stand would be preferable to placing the recorder itself on the microphone stand because it would give me the ability to stop recording between songs (to achieve file segregation), adjust input levels dynamically (to avoid clipping), prevent dancers from knocking it over, etc.

My primary concerns using a remotely located microphone are achieving good sound quality, and minimizing the use of adaptors and ancillary gear to connect the microphone to a recorder using an eighth-inch mini-jack.

In a perfect world, I'd connect the recorder directly to the P/A mixer, but we're not ready for that quite yet.
 
#177
I don't know about wireless, but it sure would be nice. I always index as I go, but then I keep the unit right in front of the bass. Indexing only takes a couple of clicks, but my friends who can't reach their units while playing say that it's not that hard to break the big file into smaller ones using stereo editing programs like Audacity/Peak/Amadeus etc.
 
#180
Jazzdogg said:
I bought an Edirol R-09 and have been very happy with its performance. However, in order to make a recording that captures the sounds of our six-piece (electric) band without clipping, I need to place the unit so far away from the band that I can't get to it to stop recording between songs.

I looked at the Edirol website and the companion corded microphone has a very short cord (~60"). Does anyone know of a suitable microphone, that can be connected to the Edirol through its 1/8" mini plug, and has a cord that's at least 15' long?

If not, does anyone have another method that might work for us?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I was able to resolve the clipping problems and the resulting recordings exceeded my expectations, and those of my bandmates, by a wide margin.

The problem I was having was that when I positioned my Edirol for the best sound, it was too far away from me to reach and adjust the input levels during a set.

I now have our conga player adjust the input levels during our sound check; we deliberately play as loudly as we will during the gig just for this purpose.

So far, I haven't had to use the switch on the back of the unit to accommodate our max volume.

The Edirol has been a fantastic unit. During rehearsals, I've set it up within arms length and obtained good recordings, albeit a little bass heavy. Properly positioned to obtain a balance of instruments and vocals, the recordings have been marvelous.

I didn't mean to lead anyone to believe the Edirol was at fault. With a long enough microphone cable, I could position a remote mic to capture the band's sound while controlliing the Edirol from my position on stage; my post had more to do with my own lack of knowlege about the proper use of mirophones and their cables than it had to do with the performance of the Edirol, with which I am exceedingly happy.

p.s. - this thing does go through batteries rather quickly.
 

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