Double Bass So uh.. Dampening?

[Seiki]

Well this might be a little embarrassing to admit, but I have no idea what the bit of string beyond the bridge is called. I also happen to dislike the noise is creates as I play. What is this called, and does anybody have any experiences with gadgets that will suppress/dampen just that unplayed extra bit of string?

I feel like a three year old without knowing this diction, lol

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

They're called afterlenghts. Depending on your particular fashion sense, you could weave a doo-rag in there to dampen them, or use stiff black plastic tubing like Upton bass does/did.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

If you have a wolf tone you can also look at getting a wolf tone eliminator.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

A short length of leather boot lace is functional and stylish in a butch kinda way...

 

[Ortsom]

A thick 'O'-ring, as you'll find below the oilfilter in a car, can help. Cut off a suitable length & place it below the strings, right at the end of the tailpiece. It dampens a bit, but likely enough. And is nearly invisible, and costs nothing.

 

[turf3]

If you want to dampen the afterlengths, a wet washcloth works well.

If you want to damp the afterlengths, the suggestions above work well.

Another approach might be to try to tune them (I believe the typical value is an octave and a fourth above the pitch of the open string). Maybe it's not that you are hearing them but that they are "out of tune" with the rest of the instrument? I know that the tuning of the apparently inactive bits of strings is important for pianos.

 

[Ortsom]

OP didn't say, but I suspect it is the metallic twang (like from solidcores) that bothers him. Leather shoelace, any piece of rope <or whatever> kills it completely, a rubber damper some 8mm above the TP ridge (so between the TP & the strings) attenuates predominantly the highs, leaving the afterlength's base note largely intact.

I believe common advise for DBs is a bit shorter than that (common is 2 octave + a fifth up, or 1/6 of the open length, about 7"; 1 oct + a 4th would be about 16"). Lengths obviously assume the same linear density in the afterlength as in the 42" sounding part, which is not quite the case, but normally near enough.

The OP's issue might also be an alu TP. I once experienced that on a cello, and it is, let's say, less desirable.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I think it's two octaves and a fourth.

 

[Ortsom]

While I don't think this is the OP's issue here (maybe he can chime in), the 1/6 ratio is not sacrosanct. Longer or shorter influence the character of the instrument, and it is a subjective choice to be made by the player (like many others). And of course these short & relatively thick (i.e. stiff) pieces of afterlength string are poorly described by the idealised string formula, friction should be included. Hence the lengths are not accurate.

Yet (2^[1/12])^31=6, while ..^29=5.34.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

In the afterlength the mass distribution is not the same than on the played part of the string. So just calculating the length after the played part doesn't work.

In fact every string (type) has a different mass distribution in the afterlength. If you want to tune your afterlength, better get a tunable tailpiece than trying to adjust the tailpiece cable which might work for one of the strings but not the others and is rather painful.

 

[Ortsom]

On the lengths: agreed & that is what I said: 'lengths are not accurate'. An afterlength with a length of 1/6 of the open (sounding) string length will not be precisely 6x frequency of the open string. This is primarily because of differences in linear density (= what you call mass distribution), but also due to friction (which becomes more important here). So if you want to accurately fine-tune your individual afterlengths (using a tuner), you need a special TP, either per-string tunable, or with offsets fitting your particular set of strings. Many people, including me, are however satisfied with the approximation that can be achieved with a conventional TP. At least, insofar as I'm concerned, it is not some of my marginally mistuned afterlengths that are holding me back.

So forgetting about lengths, a recommendation for base frequencies (aka 'pitch') is still relevant. Would you recommend a ratio 6, or 5.34 for the DB?

Jake, I see you 'like' both a pitch ratio of 2.67 and 5.34, yet as a luthier, which would be your recommendation for the DB?

 

[robobass]

I'm just wondering if there isn't something more going on here. The OP says he dislikes the "noise" the afterlengths make. I won't argue the importance of afterlength tuning, but I don't actually hear them when playing. I'm wondering if there isn't some buzzing or something going on. What strings do you have? Pic?

 

[Ortsom]

Robo, like you I suspect the OP's issue is definitely not afterlength tuning, but rather something metallic like solidcore twang or maybe even an alu TP. I asked for it before; maybe we'll hear. Might even turn out to be an end-pin rattle.

Anyway, this thread has diverged a bit into afterlength tuning, so I'll share some more research on the matter. As I said earlier, conventional 'wisdom' is 6x the open string pitch, = 31 semitones, = 2 octaves + a fifth, = approximately 1/6 of the open string length (and yes, I previously forgot to mention stiffness as another important factor). Early sources go back as far as 250 years, and in 1895 Riechers presented this as a 'scientific' rule. The topic has yet to go out of fashion, and was for instance also addressed at the 2013 SMAC. The conventional rule of 1/6 still stands, but it is commonly recognised that many other factor play a role, notably TP weight, TG length, TG material, ... Furthermore, it is most definitely not an analytical (or scientific) truth, but rather a subjective choice. And while the rule of 6ths is most frequently quoted, particularly pertaining to the smaller family members like violin & cello, I have also seen 1 recommendation of 2 octaves + a fourth = 29 semitones = 5.34x open pitch, specifically for the DB.

Why the pitch relationship in the DB would be different from the rest of the family is is unclear to me, and sofar I have just gone with the conventional rule of 1/6 in length (so that's 7" on a 42" DB), without giving it much further thought.

I have also just checked what that means in pitch, and with a Spiro A that gives me pretty much 2 octaves + a fifth = 31 semitones. But: not so for the other strings. The higher Spiro's appear to go a bit higher, and strings with a double wrapped core (like Honeys) go much lower. And of course if you put a clip for your 1/4" jack between the A-D you're completely up the brown river, without a paddle.

Personally I'll just stick with what I've done sofar (1/6 in length), as that conveniently fits conventional strings & TP's.