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So you wanna make the audience deaf too?

#121
ksandvik said:
Maybe the band members have been in the audience at concerts such as this one and didn't realize the wall of ams/cabs is a fake:

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I worked as a stage hand at a Metallica show many moons ago. When they opened up the truck for us to unload it was stacked floor to ceiling with Marshall 4X12 cabs, or so I thought until two of us picked one of them up. Out of 27 cabs, only three of them were real, the rest were mockups. Their road crew arranged them in three sets of nine, three high and three wide with a Marshall Major head atop each stack of three. The only real cab in each array was the center one, and ALL the Marshall Major heads were fakes; there was a 50W Marshall head behind each guitarist's array and a 100W one behind the bassist's stack. The PA did the heavy lifting.
 
#122
I've been on the side where it was the bands fault, as well as the sound guy's fault. With our band we cleared a small venue out with our volume, and after that the drummer and I vowed to not let the guitarist determine levels. We still had to wrestle him to the ground from time to time to get his levels down, but people stuck around to listen to us.

Even with hard rock or metal, if it is too loud most people don't want to be around for it. I'm not gigging now, but my last few groups were battles to keep the noise down. IEM for the win.
 
#123
I went to a Springsteen show here in Austin at the Erwin Center a few years ago where the sound company ruined the show with volume. It was so loud that my ears were distorting and the music was unintelligible. I had left my musician's earplugs at home, so I tore off pieces of my program, chewed them up, and jammed them into my ears, which helped a lot with the volume but didn't help the intelligibility much.

Just because you have the ability to drive the SPL up to and beyond the threshold of pain, that doesn't mean that you should.
 
#127
slaps76 said:
I don't get why so many metal bands(I'm talking local bands at the bars), feel the need to play with full stacks, in a room that holds 100 people, with everything cranked. When the music is THAT loud, it becomes nothing but a distraction. Tone goes out the window at that point.
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Probably because the loudness hides their lack of musicianship. It's also a security issue. They think people won't believe they're a real metal band without the volume. A really talented band can play at a tolerable volume and still rock the house.
 
#128
I seldom attend live concerts anymore because the sound is usually bad. For the amount of money the big-name acts charge, we should be getting the best sound and we're not. Typically it's not the volume that's the problem, it's the mix. The kick drum is always too loud and the bass is smily-face EQ'd. Too low where it's trying to compete with the kick and too high where it's competing with the guitars. As a result the bass is either inaudible or it sounds like a mic'd cab with a blown speaker and a sheet of drywall between the cab and the mic. Until the bass gets a solo and then all of a sudden you hear this trebly twang with a bit of bottom blasting out at you, then the rest of the instruments join in and the bass disappears again. :rollno: Often the vocals are lost in the mix as well. Sound engineers seem to think we all want live music to sound like a dance club DJ.
 
#129
I'm firmly in the camp wondering why these bands feel the need to basically completely ruin the way they sound, and the hearing of their audience.

And this is coming from someone who, for most of my life, has been primarily a metal fan, and have gone to tons of kick-ass high-voltage shows, and am an avid trap shooter.

This attitude of "it's worth going deaf later to enjoy my music now" is pure foolishness.

First, you can completely enjoy metal and other loud music without damaging yourself at all. Maybe it's because I came from a family of classical musicians, where hearing loss is a common issue, so ear safety was drilled into me from the beginning; but I have always been super careful (earplugs, where I am in the room, walking out at the drop of a hat on any band who's sound sucks), and according to my hearing check last month, at 40 I've still got better hearing than most 20 year olds, and I promise you, without sacrificing any enjoyment. I sucked up being the only "dork" at the concert putting in plugs, banged my head at I don't know how many shows, and can still enjoy listening to their CDs whenever I want.

Funny how it's usually no big loss to walk out. I've seen unintelligible bar bands that were at much more excruciating volumes and mixes than Slayer. If they wanna sound like noise, whatever, it shows how serious they are about their music, and I'll take my money and ears and leave, and save them for someone who takes themselves and music seriously.

And the second part of that foolishness, that somehow you won't mind being deaf later, is just so sad. Hell, if I hadn't been so careful, I wouldn't even be here posting. Life is long, and I'm really glad that I've still got good ears that allow me to start a new instrument at 40. I'm so glad I can spend a nice Sunday morning transcribing CDs and learning tricky (to me at least) little bass fills, and hear my new baby cooing downstairs and the birds chirping all at the same time.

I have friends who will never be able to have that fun ... I wouldn't trade for anything.

So why am I spending my Sunday posting? Maybe cause if it weren't for the people who don't walk out, and mock those who do care about their ears, there'd be more good music for the rest of us, and fewer people suffering. Before joining TB, I'd never seen anyone else really bring it up, it's nice to know I'm not alone. I always figured there had to be someone else buying those little foam plugs ...
 
#130
You guys know that even a well mixed band in a good quality room can damage your earing , right ?
The quality of the mix , of the musicianship , of the arrangements , of the stage sound has nothing to do with loudness. Always wear ear protection even if you go to a Steely Dan concert.

Just saying' ......
 
#131
We've found that our best mixes in small/med rooms or at moderate volumes come when we only run vox, and some kick drum through the PA. I'm playing through an SWR Workingman's 400 (which I run at 250 watts into a 410, and the guitarist plays through a 50 watt Rockerverb into a 212. We match volume to the drums, set the vox through the PA and run. Works really well for us.

When we start hitting gymnasium sized places or larger outdoor stuff we usually mic up a bit, but honestly we don't have that many of those that we provide our own production for. Most of the time the larger stuff is backline supplied.
 

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