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Soapbar-shaped jazz pickups - do they exist?

When you have a dual coil humbucker, each coil is not wound the same as a single coil pickup, it's wound a lot less. So when you split to the single coil, it's often weak and thin sounding.

Some companies get around that by winding them both like single coils. That would be too muddy in series, so they wire them in parallel. But having the two coils wound that hot, even in parallel, doesn't sound the same as lower winds in series because of the increased inductance on the coils.

Also, some soapbars can have a wider aperture single coil than a Jazz pickup.

Lastly, Jazz pickups just don't fit the look of every bass. They are an old design, and look out of place on some more modern looking basses. Could you imagine Jazz pickups on a Steinberger? :)

subjetive...

After using bartolini passive jazz (less wounded pups than many jazz pups) his entire career, gary willis designed his signature model with an active/passive double coil pup with passive single coil option. Maybe the most perfect sound i ever heard...
And if the look concerns you, you can buy single coils in narrow soapbars, that have the same width as a jazz, like this:
p_ba_x44cbjs.jpg
 
subjetive...

Not subjective at all as far as the coil's inductance. That's physics.
After using bartolini passive jazz (less wounded pups than many jazz pups) his entire career, gary willis designed his signature model with an active/passive double coil pup with passive single coil option.

Not all Bartolini Jazz pickups are under wound Jazz pickups. The pickups Willis used to use had one coil per string. It wasn't a single coil.

The pickup he uses now in his GWB1005 model is NOT a double coil pickup. It has a separate coil per each string.

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PICKUPS
Bridge Pickup
Name: BARTOLINI® WILLIS
Model No: N/A
Construction: Humbucking/Passive
Magnet: -
Description: Features separate coils for each string to allow more precise string-to-string volume.

So it's a humbucker with separate coils per each string. But it's not a dual coil humbucker. There is no option for a "single coil mode," and there is no single coil in the pickup that covers all the strings. But because it has a coil per string, it would sound like a single coil/split coil pickup. The bass also only has a volume and the bass/treble controls. No coil switches. It's also not an active/passive pickup.

The difference is he used to have two pickups on his bass, and now he has one.

The GWB35 model also has a humbucker, not a single coil.
Maybe the most perfect sound i ever heard...

Now THAT'S subjective. ;) My passive humbuckers can get that tone too.

And if the look concerns you, you can buy single coils in narrow soapbars, that have the same width as a jazz, like this:
p_ba_x44cbjs.jpg

You are missing the point. You don't even know what's in that pickup. Just like you didn't know what's in Willis' pickup. Why would you want a narrow pickup over a wide one? For looks? Willis' new pickup is not narrow.

I agree, that soapbar does look nicer than a standard Jazz pickup.

It can be a dual coil humbucker. It might be a split coil humbucker. You almost never see a single coil in a soapbar, but you can put anything you want in one as long as it fits.

But unless you want a narrow aperture pickup, that size is limiting.
 
I've been thinking of doing this. The J pickups are epoxied in their covers, but the whole cover would fit into an EMG45 sized case (which is what fits the bass). How would you recommend I do this? Pot it with epoxy?

What kind of J pickups are they? Is it a six string bass? The EMG-45 (4.5") is a six string sized pickup. I don't think Jazz pickups are wide enough. Most will just about cover a 5 string bass.

A J will fit into an EMG 40 size case, but the mounting screws on the 40 are in the way.

You would be better off having a pickup made for you.
 
What kind of J pickups are they? Is it a six string bass? The EMG-45 (4.5") is a six string sized pickup. I don't think Jazz pickups are wide enough. Most will just about cover a 5 string bass.

A J will fit into an EMG 40 size case, but the mounting screws on the 40 are in the way.

You would be better off having a pickup made for you.

It is a 6 string bass, but the pickups I want to use are Carvin J99a which are made to work with their 6 string basses. I have a Carvin bass with them that is my main bass, and I would like my backup Ibanez to have the same pickups. The string spacing is the same as the Carvin, and the pickups fit between the screws on the EMG45 cases, so it should work fine.
 
It is a 6 string bass, but the pickups I want to use are Carvin J99a which are made to work with their 6 string basses. I have a Carvin bass with them that is my main bass, and I would like my backup Ibanez to have the same pickups. The string spacing is the same as the Carvin, and the pickups fit between the screws on the EMG45 cases, so it should work fine.

You can get the 45 cases here:

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I'd just put a little 5 minute epoxy on the top of the Carvin pickup, then get it positioned in the 45 cover and let it cure.

There's no need to fill the whole thing with epoxy since that was done in the Carvin pickup already.
 
Dont know where you got that info your saying.

I got it from the Ibanez website. It's a Bartolini NTBT preamp. And the pickup has separate coils for each string. Click on the link, or just look at the screen capture below.

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They build the bass. I think they probably know more about it than he does.

GWB1005.png


If you pull up on the volume control the preamp is bypassed:

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The pickup is always passive. You must not have understood what he was saying, or he didn't explain it right. I did not watch the clip.

For example, here he says:

All GWB basses come equipped with the Bartolini NTBT EQ. This active tone control preamp features independent Bass and Treble controls in stacked knobs ( top: Treble, bottom: Bass ) and each control boosts and cuts up to 15db. Also, there is a gain trim pot at inside the control cavity, so you can adjust the output level to match your amplification system. For your convenience, EQ bypass can be achieved by simply pulling up the volume control knob.

He means the preamp is bypassed. Some preamps bypass the EQ while still remaining in the signal path.
 
I got it from the Ibanez website. It's a Bartolini NTBT preamp. And the pickup has separate coils for each string. Click on the link, or just look at the screen capture below.

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They build the bass. I think they probably know more about it than he does.

GWB1005.png


If you pull up on the volume control the preamp is bypassed:

Invalid Link Removed

The pickup is always passive. You must not have understood what he was saying, or he didn't explain it right. I did not watch the clip.

For example, here he says:



He means the preamp is bypassed. Some preamps bypass the EQ while still remaining in the signal path.


Is subjetive when you state that the double coil pup in single coil mode would sound thin and weak.

All Bartolinis single coil i know are less wounded than any others single coil. I asked the technique support at bartolini and they say are wounded about 5-6k.
Maybe a half than a fender, dimarzio, duncan....
So, if you switch a regular double coil to single coil you´ll get a similar rate than a bartolini. And dont sound weak or thin at all...

You can check this video, when Gary explain very clear that they started with a single coil jazz pickup, so he wanted to have that option (single coil jazz pickup) in the bass. Then he starts explaining the ACTIVE/PASSIVE systen and preamp... so its reasonable to assum its a less wounded pup.
 
Is subjetive when you state that the double coil pup in single coil mode would sound thin and weak.

It's not subjective at all. But believe what you want, and not the facts.

Just in case you don't realize it, I design and build pickups. Ive been doing this stuff since about 1977.

When you have a humbucker that has two coils under the strings, and it's wired in series, which is the most common way to wire it, two things are going on; first, you are sampling a wider area of the strings. This gives a fuller tone, and is one reason why humbuckers are generally louder and fuller sounding than single coils.

The second thing is that you are hearing both coils added together which raises the Inductance.

If you take a Gibson PAF type humbucker, and split it to single coil mode, it wont sound like a Strat. Why? Because one coil in a PAF is about 4k, and a Strat is between 6 and 9k.

But higher resistance does mean higher output anyway. There's more to it than that.


All Bartolinis single coil i know are less wounded than any others single coil. I asked the technique support at bartolini and they say are wounded about 5-6k.

Thats true of some Bartolini pickups. Most of them are not single coils, but they aren't wound very hot either, because that gives you a less clear tone. The ones Willis used to use where not single coils.

If you look at Bart Jazz bass pickups, here's what you have. The 9S Jazz pickups are single coils. That's about the only single coil bass pickup he makes. The 59J1s are split coil humbuckers. The 9W-5Js have one coil per string. He also makes a stacked pickup. One of the original Bartolini designs was having one coil per string. Most of the Classic Bass series pickups have one coil per string. This was in Bill Bartolini's two 1976 patents. All his pickups where made this way until about 1975. I own one of the first Bart/Hi-A dual coil humbuckers from 1976.

bart_coils.png


And that still has nothing to do with the subject at hand. You are talking about an atypical single coil. Not half of a humbucker.

Maybe a half than a fender, dimarzio, duncan....
So, if you switch a regular double coil to single coil you´ll get a similar rate than a bartolini. And dont sound weak or thin at all...

What's "a regular double coil"? Name the pickup. Humbuckers can range from a Music Man, which is 2k, to a Kent Armstrong Music Man style pickup at 13.6K, and everything in-between.

And splitting a humbucker wont make it sound like a Bart, or a Jazz bass either.

You can check this video, when Gary explain very clear that they started with a single coil jazz pickup, so he wanted to have that option (single coil jazz pickup) in the bass. Then he starts explaining the ACTIVE/PASSIVE systen and preamp... so its reasonable to assum its a less wounded pup.

Except he doesn't have that option. I just showed you what he wrote in his own words. You are able to bypass the preamp. He did not design the pickup. Bartolini did. Bartolini and Ibanez say it has separate coils for each string. Why would Ibanez say that and not just say it's a single coil? Why is it not Jazz bass shaped like his old pickups? It's not a single coil, it's a humbucker. They say so right on the page. He also links to Ibanez's web site for the bass. Not every players knows the technical details. He said he wanted a Jazz bass tone, he didn't tell them how to do it.

You will also notice that it doesn't hum. They also point out that it's a humbucker. But it doesn't have two coils per string, it has one. They alternate polarity, so they hum cancel.

There is also no controls on the bass to switch the pickup. Do you see a switch anywhere? It has volume, which pulls up to s witch the bass to passive mode, and a bass/treble stacked pot. No other switches.
 
It's not subjective at all. But believe what you want, and not the facts.

Just in case you don't realize it, I design and build pickups. Ive been doing this stuff since about 1977.

When you have a humbucker that has two coils under the strings, and it's wired in series, which is the most common way to wire it, two things are going on; first, you are sampling a wider area of the strings. This gives a fuller tone, and is one reason why humbuckers are generally louder and fuller sounding than single coils.

The second thing is that you are hearing both coils added together which raises the Inductance.

If you take a Gibson PAF type humbucker, and split it to single coil mode, it wont sound like a Strat. Why? Because one coil in a PAF is about 4k, and a Strat is between 6 and 9k.

But higher resistance does mean higher output anyway. There's more to it than that.




Thats true of some Bartolini pickups. Most of them are not single coils, but they aren't wound very hot either, because that gives you a less clear tone. The ones Willis used to use where not single coils.

If you look at Bart Jazz bass pickups, here's what you have. The 9S Jazz pickups are single coils. That's about the only single coil bass pickup he makes. The 59J1s are split coil humbuckers. The 9W-5Js have one coil per string. He also makes a stacked pickup. One of the original Bartolini designs was having one coil per string. Most of the Classic Bass series pickups have one coil per string. This was in Bill Bartolini's two 1976 patents. All his pickups where made this way until about 1975. I own one of the first Bart/Hi-A dual coil humbuckers from 1976.

bart_coils.png


And that still has nothing to do with the subject at hand. You are talking about an atypical single coil. Not half of a humbucker.



What's "a regular double coil"? Name the pickup. Humbuckers can range from a Music Man, which is 2k, to a Kent Armstrong Music Man style pickup at 13.6K, and everything in-between.

And splitting a humbucker wont make it sound like a Bart, or a Jazz bass either.



Except he doesn't have that option. I just showed you what he wrote in his own words. You are able to bypass the preamp. He did not design the pickup. Bartolini did. Bartolini and Ibanez say it has separate coils for each string. Why would Ibanez say that and not just say it's a single coil? Why is it not Jazz bass shaped like his old pickups? It's not a single coil, it's a humbucker. They say so right on the page. He also links to Ibanez's web site for the bass. Not every players knows the technical details. He said he wanted a Jazz bass tone, he didn't tell them how to do it.

You will also notice that it doesn't hum. They also point out that it's a humbucker. But it doesn't have two coils per string, it has one. They alternate polarity, so they hum cancel.

There is also no controls on the bass to switch the pickup. Do you see a switch anywhere? It has volume, which pulls up to s witch the bass to passive mode, and a bass/treble stacked pot. No other switches.


Well, split coil, 1 coil per string, single coil etc, is about the technical/electrical aspect, not the sound.

Willis got a jacoish Jazz Bass pup sound using split coil or one coil per string...

Bartolini design his jazz pickups with split coils and claims "The traditional Jazz Tone with more bottom and mid lows.." or some like that, they dont say "This sound different than Jazz Pickups"...

Dont know what youre trying to show me with those graphics...

But what we were discussing is if you can get a Jazz Bass pup sound spliting a double coil.

You said that it is impossible because each coil of a double coil pup is less wounded than a typical single coil in a jazz bass pup, and the tone is thinner and weaker
right?

Well, then i told you "bartolini pups are less wounded than a typical jazz pups (maybe a half) and they still sound like jazz pickups".
So, the fact that the coils in a double coil pup are less wounded dont mean you cant get a jazz pup tone using one of them.
 
Bartolini design his jazz pickups with split coils and claims "The traditional Jazz Tone with more bottom and mid lows.." or some like that, they dont say "This sound different than Jazz Pickups"..
" 'The same but different' BUT NOT 'The same but different' "...

I love when people on this forum disregard the people with knowledge and expertise in the specific area being discussed.
 
Well, split coil, 1 coil per string, single coil etc, is about the technical/electrical aspect, not the sound.

Willis got a jacoish Jazz Bass pup sound using split coil or one coil per string...

Bartolini design his jazz pickups with split coils and claims "The traditional Jazz Tone with more bottom and mid lows.." or some like that, they dont say "This sound different than Jazz Pickups"...

Dont know what youre trying to show me with those graphics...

But what we were discussing is if you can get a Jazz Bass pup sound spliting a double coil.

You said that it is impossible because each coil of a double coil pup is less wounded than a typical single coil in a jazz bass pup, and the tone is thinner and weaker
right?

Well, then i told you "bartolini pups are less wounded than a typical jazz pups (maybe a half) and they still sound like jazz pickups".
So, the fact that the coils in a double coil pup are less wounded dont mean you cant get a jazz pup tone using one of them.

Hey mate, while I appreciate that you're trying to argue your case, what I originally asked was:

Are there any single-coil jazz style pickups that come in soapbar shape?

How about humbucker? (as in, perhaps two jazz pickups joined?)"


As I've said before, and as David has said, I do not like the sound of soapbars, and I especially do not like the sound of any split pickups. They just do not sound like single coils to me; while they might get away with it on a recording, it just doesn't feel or sound like a single coil when actually played.

I respectfully disagree with your claim that they sound like [Fender] jazz pickups. Saying "The traditional Jazz Tone with more bottom and mid lows.." to me means that it's really not the traditional jazz tone, it's just marketing.

It's a bit like amp emulation/software, to me. It might get close, but it is not the same as the real thing, and can not ever be.
 
Well, split coil, 1 coil per string, single coil etc, is about the technical/electrical aspect, not the sound.

Not true at all. What do you base that option on? One coil per string has very low inductance coils, with low parasitic capacitance. This is what the Bart patent was based on. It's also why the Wal pickup sounds as it does.

How many pickups have you made that you know it's just a "technical/electrical aspect"? Pickups are electrical! :rollno: The shape and size of the coil alters the tone. This is why a Strat pickup sounds different from a Jazzmaster, or a Jazz and a P bass.

Willis got a jacoish Jazz Bass pup sound using split coil or one coil per string...

And I can get a Jaco tone from my Neo jazzbuckers, and they are dual coil humbuckers. What's your point? Any pickup that close to the bridge can sound like Jaco.

Dont know what youre trying to show me with those graphics...

No, apparently you don't. That's from the Bartolini patent. That's what his pickups look like on the inside. That's what Willis' pickup looks like on the inside. You don't have to believe me, but trust me it does.

Look, the bottom line is you are wrong about the pickup used in his bass, and you really don't know anything about pickups. You have some opinions based on nothing about his bass that you are stuck on.

I'm trying to teach you a thing or two, but that's going nowhere, so this is my last post on the subject. His bass does not have a single coil Jazz pickup. Its a multi-coil humbucker. Just get over it already.
 
Hey mate, while I appreciate that you're trying to argue your case, what I originally asked was:

Are there any single-coil jazz style pickups that come in soapbar shape?

How about humbucker? (as in, perhaps two jazz pickups joined?)"


As I've said before, and as David has said, I do not like the sound of soapbars, and I especially do not like the sound of any split pickups. They just do not sound like single coils to me; while they might get away with it on a recording, it just doesn't feel or sound like a single coil when actually played.

I respectfully disagree with your claim that they sound like [Fender] jazz pickups. Saying "The traditional Jazz Tone with more bottom and mid lows.." to me means that it's really not the traditional jazz tone, it's just marketing.

It's a bit like amp emulation/software, to me. It might get close, but it is not the same as the real thing, and can not ever be.

If you dont like double coil soapbars, why you want to put a single coil inside a wide soapbar? Just buy a jazz type pup or a narrow soapbar with a single coil inside...
 
Not true at all. What do you base that option on? One coil per string has very low inductance coils, with low parasitic capacitance. This is what the Bart patent was based on. It's also why the Wal pickup sounds as it does.

How many pickups have you made that you know it's just a "technical/electrical aspect"? Pickups are electrical! :rollno: The shape and size of the coil alters the tone. This is why a Strat pickup sounds different from a Jazzmaster, or a Jazz and a P bass.



And I can get a Jaco tone from my Neo jazzbuckers, and they are dual coil humbuckers. What's your point? Any pickup that close to the bridge can sound like Jaco.



No, apparently you don't. That's from the Bartolini patent. That's what his pickups look like on the inside. That's what Willis' pickup looks like on the inside. You don't have to believe me, but trust me it does.

Look, the bottom line is you are wrong about the pickup used in his bass, and you really don't know anything about pickups. You have some opinions based on nothing about his bass that you are stuck on.

I'm trying to teach you a thing or two, but that's going nowhere, so this is my last post on the subject. His bass does not have a single coil Jazz pickup. Its a multi-coil humbucker. Just get over it already.

Well, keep quoting part of my opinion out of context anytime you want. Cheers...
 
You may want to read a little more carefully in future - I said in the original post that my current bass has Nordstrand pickups - a Fat Stack (soapbar) and a Musicman-style humbucker. I want to replace those with single coils, but obviously I don't want to have gaping holes in my bass.

Therefore, I asked whether there were single coil pickups that came in soapbar and humbucker shapes, so that I could maintain the look of the bass but have a different tone.
 
You may want to read a little more carefully in future - I said in the original post that my current bass has Nordstrand pickups - a Fat Stack (soapbar) and a Musicman-style humbucker. I want to replace those with single coils, but obviously I don't want to have gaping holes in my bass.

Therefore, I asked whether there were single coil pickups that came in soapbar and humbucker shapes, so that I could maintain the look of the bass but have a different tone.

this? (single coil in a soapar housing)

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You may want to read a little more carefully in future - I said in the original post that my current bass has Nordstrand pickups - a Fat Stack (soapbar) and a Musicman-style humbucker. I want to replace those with single coils, but obviously I don't want to have gaping holes in my bass.

Therefore, I asked whether there were single coil pickups that came in soapbar and humbucker shapes, so that I could maintain the look of the bass but have a different tone.

If you have Nordstrand's Fat Stack in your instrument, the "obvious" replacement would probably be their Big Single.