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Double Bass soft touch recommendations

lefty5

lefty5

May 13, 2010
43
6
north carolina
#1
my wife plays an upright kay from the 50s bluegrass style.
its time for a new set of strings and she is looking to see what if any strings out there will give a softer touch on the fret board and still have the punch needed for bluegrass style music. right now it has thomastik spirocore weich on it.
they are getting old and losing their sound and one has a bad spot showing up in it.
i have heard alot about the super silvers and velvet compass blues but hey ,, i'm a banjo picker not a bass player so its a big investment for a set of bass strings not knowing exactly what your buying. i know the spirocore are tried and true and a the most popular but are theere other options maybe not as well known?

thanks
terry m
 
#2
Innovation, who make the Super Silvers, also make lighter gauge strings. You could also look into gut strings. WeedWackers are another option.

Read up here at TB or visit Bassgrass. Some retailers like Bob G. give a pretty good description of the strings they sell.
Good luck. It's easy to get into the buy and try routine, which can be expensive.:rolleyes: Used strings is a lower cost option for this.

Pirastro Obligatos are a good one to check out.
 
#3
Spiros tend to be more popular with jazz players. They generally have a bit more growl and sustain, rather than the round bloom.

I've played Obligatos on an Englehart. I respectfully disagree -- I think they sound great, but take effort.

Yes, the Innovation line are good, although I haven't gotten to play them. I've also considered Blue Velvets for myself as well, since I play a variety of gigs, not just jazz.

Changing to actual gut might be frustrating, because of the extra time for them to settle, the extra time and effort to install and maintain them properly over time (oiling occasionally, trimming the fuzz, etc.) But for those who do bluegrass, they do give the signature tone. Unless the bridge is adjustible, you might need a new setup, which adds to the cost of switching to gut.

Another item is the finish of the string. If she is used to the smooth Spiros, some of these strings have a rough or ribbed feel to them, almost like a roundwound string. These can be uncomfortable over the course of a gig, and may cause blisters if a person is not used to them, and in my opinion is a bigger issue than just tension.

Finally, how is the fingerboard and setup? A really good setup by a competent bass luthier (not just a fiddle guy) to set the nut, fingerboard arc and proper camber, bridge height and tailpiece, will do more to make the bass more comfortable to play than will any new set of strings, and when getting it set up, a discussion with the luthier about playing styles, preferences, and the player's strong and weak points will help the luthier tailor the setup and string selection to get the best out of the bass for the particular player.
 
#4
Spirocore Weich is not bad at all. Maybe just a different G and D would do the job and is less expensive?
What comes to my mind is Innovation 140B (G and D with Spirocore Weich A and E, I play that now, the lower strings have too less sustain for me), Innovation 140H (complete set, a bit less tension and power than Spirocore Weich) or Evah Pirazzi Weich (G and D or complete set, probably a bit more tension than Spirocore Weich and stretchy).
All these strings are a bit thicker than Spirocore, so on the higher strings it is easier to play even with the same tension as Spiro Weich. Evah Pirazzi is darker than Innovation 140B but similar in construction (a lighter string with similar construction is Innovation Super Silvers and even lighter Super Slaps). They all have braided synthetic cores. The Innovation 140H has a solid synthetic core (like Pirastro Obligato), sounds a bit plastic, but more dark to midrange. More similar to gut than the others.

Why not getting an Innovation 140B D and an Evah Pirazzi Weich G for testing? If one of them is fine get the other string too.
 
#5
For sure, check the online retailers, some of them have gone to some trouble to try to sort this out so we can take advantage of all the new strings on the market, and don't all have to keep playing Spirocores. In case "Bob G." doesn't ring a bell, that's Gollihur Music, and indeed he does present a half dozen possible choices for bluegrass players.

Sometimes people report improvement in the punch we're looking for, with lighter tension strings - not just nearly as good, but really better, like you can have your cake and eat it too in this case.

It sounds like there might be a little discomfort in the left hand. Apparently the strings need replacing anyway, but if that doesn't altogether solve the problem, a luthier might be able to set it up to play easier. I suppose the right setup from years ago might not be the right setup now.
 
#6
the set up was done by robin smith in hendersonville tenn. he is a luthier and a bass player.
he also builds banjos too. he plays bass for ronnie reno and has a great reputation as to what makes a bass operate at it max. the action with the spirocores is pretty good for a bluegrass set up. as a general rule she plays it miked instead of plugged in. it has an adjustable bridge on it now that robin made out of some real old maple. it seems to transfer very well. her bass seems to have a bit deeper tone than alot of C-1s i have played.
i get you as far as a flat wound string verses a round wound. i will need to check closely on the synthetic strings as to how they are wrapped. i noticed that spirocores have really went up since i bought these last ones. its a tough call that can get expensive though. i was hoping i could make a decision before christmas and get her a set to go under the tree.
but i really appreciate you guys helping out with you info.


terry m
 
#7
How about a nice set of guts, or at least plain gut on the top with something like Super Silvers or Animas on the bottom? Gut feels great (soft), sounds great, and is a highly appropriate choice for traditional bluegrass. Plus, I bet your Kay will appreciate the low tension.

I have a full set of Gamut guts on my '48 Epiphone, which I use to play old-time stringband stuff. Gamuts are expensive, but worth every penny. And if you don't like them, you'll have no problem selling them here in the Classifieds.
 
#8
I just want to remind you that all strings that are thicker than the Spiro Weich will need adjustments to the nut and bridge. If you don't some strings may break rather quickly (Obligato/Dominant) others only much quicker than without adjustments. And the drawback is, that if you want get back to thinner steel strings you need a new nut and probably a new bridge. With an adjustable you might compensate, but only a few times.

If you don't use the solid synthetic core strings (Obligato/Dominant) you might try the strings without adjustments, but sometimes the windings will break at bridge (or nut) and make the string unusable beyond trial. Since gut is usually the thickest string, I wouldn't got this route in the first place if you are not completely sure this is the right way to go. (And prices are really high on gut!)

Also check if humidity varies a lot in your area, the wound gut on lower strings should be avoided, otherwise you will get tuning problems. Better use synthetic core strings for E and probably A in that case. Gut is available in several different tensions. It might get really expensive to try the best tension. The D string should be a good one since this one seems to be more sensitive. Not so much a problem with the G string. To check if gut is the right direction try a G string first. Could be combinated with a Evah Pirazzi Weich D (fits better to gut than Innovation 140B or super silvers which will fit better to Spirocore Weich) for example, to check out both routes.

I wouldn't put something under the christmas tree that is expensive as double bass strings if they could be the wrong ones. Better try out some single strings first and then decide which is the right set to buy. Two tryout strings (a G and a D) under the tree and a coupon for the rest of a complete set are better, I think.
 
#9
lefty5 said:
The set up was done by Robin Smith in Hendersonville Henn. He is a luthier and a bass player. He also builds banjos too. He plays bass for Ronnie Reno and has a great reputation as to what makes a bass operate at it max. The action with the spirocores is pretty good for a bluegrass set up. As a general rule she plays it miked instead of plugged in. It has an adjustable bridge on it now that Robin made out of some real old maple. It seems to transfer very well. Her bass seems to have a bit deeper tone than alot of C-1s I have played.
I get you as far as a flat wound string verses a round wound. I will need to check closely on the synthetic strings as to how they are wrapped. I noticed that Spirocores have really gone up since I bought these last ones. It's a tough call that can get expensive though. I was hoping I could make a decision before Christmas and get her a set to go under the tree.
But I really appreciate you guys helping out with you info.
Terry M
Click to expand...
Now that I know this, my firm advice: go ask Robin! He knows the bass; he knows the player; he knows basses in general. He's the best guy to recommend a set of strings after you explain your concerns and what your wife is looking for. Plan when you can both go, call ahead to make an appointment to spend a couple of hours with him and the bass, and see what he says.
 
#11
As I know, some Velvets may be roundwound, but they cange some of their roundwound to flatwound or semi-flatwound the last few years.
The Compas 180 and 180 SUIT are definately flatwound. I had them in my hands and on my bass and they are made for bowing (but sound really great for pizz). A bit more modern sounding, not old school gut.
Some of the Velvets are with a silk core and others with a synthetic core.

You may want to have a look at the thread "Changing D&G". Maybe this will help too.
 
#15
Mark Perna said:
Solo is the lightest gauge of Spiro
Weich is slightly heavier
Mittel is the medium gauge
Stark is heavy gauge.

The Red Mitchell set is a special set for tuning in 5ths like a cello. You don't want that one unless your wife wants to relearn the bass.
Click to expand...

oh , ok that helps alot. i thought solo was in between weich
and mittel. if thats the case i guess she'll get either weich or mittel gauge then. unless there is some steel core strings that feel better then the thomastik do.



terry m
 
#16
There are lots of strings out there, and for each of them there's at least someone who thinks they feel good. Thomastik makes other strings, e.g., Superflexible, besides Spirocores. If she isn't going to try them out, or apparently even look into the matter herself, she'd probably do as well to get what she had before, as at least it will be no worse. (Well, maybe worse at first, but they'll break in a little.)
 
#17
lefty5 said:
oh , ok that helps alot. i thought solo was in between weich
and mittel. if thats the case i guess she'll get either weich or mittel gauge then. unless there is some steel core strings that feel better then the thomastik do.
terry m
Click to expand...

The Spirocore Weichs will work very well on that bass - the Mittels will probably have too much tension for both the top and the player.
 
#18
I own a two-year-old Englehardt EG-9 and the Sprio mittels actually caused the neck to warp out of adjustment to an uncomfortable and unplayable level. Had to put the old weichs back on. Problem solved itself immediately with the lower tension weichs. :bawl:

The Englehardt/Kay basses have thinner necks with the grain orientation so that strings with greater tension usually cause neck movement-an increase in camber. (Yes, there are exceptions to this statement...but rare.)
 
#19
What Jake and CrazyZeke said. The S42 Weich set. A used set would be great, but if you get a new set, give them at least six months to settle down tonewise. Then you're good for about ten years.
 

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