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Soloing over a single chord vamp without getting too boring?

Exemonium

Exemonium

May 13, 2010
970
196
#1
I play in a 7 pc band and 5 of the 7 swing solos around all the time. Lately, the band leader keeps looking to me to solo on some of the funkier stuff. I keep telling him the entire show is one big solo to me back there with tossing in fills, walking lines, etc. that I'm completely fine just groovin. But he'd like me to solo still.
So my question :

How does one solo over a 1 chord vamp while keeping it interesting?

I'm sure I'm overthinking it, as I tend to do. Say like an Am7 groove, or A7 groove. What could/should I be trying to do? Not to mention every time I try, it still sounds like the foundation that other stuff should be over haha. When practicing I've been trying to change stuff up rhythmically which has been helping. Also trying to end some phrases on the 3 and 7, and creating melodic "call and response" lines. Which, to me, is the basics. But what about some cool runs, how should I approach stuff like that? Our sax player is a beast and I've been asking him for tips on what he does, and naturally he doesn't know. :hmm:

I'd like to start soloing on the bass, just at a loss on some of these single chord groove vamps. soloing over changes is a bit easier for me to create interesting ideas, it's the one chord stuff that's giving me problems.

As always, thanks in advance everyone!
 
#2
You should work out a framework of what you're going to do ahead of time, dont just jump in and flail around - have a direction in mind! You could try to develop your solos over static vamps in three sections - A "Hello, how are you" kind of introduction of simpler melodic ideas, a middle section where you develop some motifs, and end with some dramatic material, be it fast, crazy, slap, effects, whatever. This will make things escalate. It's the Wes Montgomery formula of soloing - He very often did this by starting out with single note melody stuff, followed by some crazy octave melody things, and concluding with those big moving block chords that sound like a horn section. Good luck!
 
#3
One chord vamp = modal. So you play modal. Do a Google.

Which modal notes?
Ionian will be the major scale notes.
Lydian will be the major scale notes with a sharp 4.
Mixolydian will be the major scale notes with a flat 7.
Aeolian will be the natural minor scale notes or the major scale notes with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
Dorian will be the natural minor scale with the b6 sharped back to a natural 6.
Phrygian will be the natural minor scale with a flat 2 added.
Locrian will be the natural minor scale with a flat 2, and a flat 5.

Get yourself three to four riffs for each one. Twenty riffs used a hundred ways.

Need a Dorian riff - b3-2-4-6-8-6-b7-5 Now name it. Lets let that be Dorian # 1. Now get two more. Dorian is a minor mode so you need the b3 and b7 notes and then the natural 6 is the characteristic note of a Dorian riff, make sure the characteristic note gets in your riff. Brings up the point your modal chord vamp should contain the characteristic note. That is why it begs for a specific mode.

You will need a Phrygian riff that means your notes will include the 2, b3, b6 and b7. The 2 is the characteristic note for a Phrygian riff. Again your one chord vamp should also have the characteristic note in its makeup. Use those and a couple of passing tones and build three Phrygian riffs. Passing tones? Look at the major and minor pentatonic each is made of three chord tones and two passing notes. The 2 & 6 are the major passing notes and the 4 & b7 are the passing notes in a minor pentatonic.

The vamp is begging for a specific mode have three riffs for all seven modes ready in muscle memory.
 
#4
Hmm. Alright. I was kind of thinking that might me a good idea, but didn't know how to tackle the riffs. I spose ill go borrow some that I like and learn to toss them in different chord situations. Maybe switch the ideas the modal ways also.
 
#5
MalcolmAmos said:
One chord vamp = modal. So you play modal.

Which modal notes?
Ionian will be the major scale notes.
Lydian will be the major scale notes with a sharp 4.
Mixolydian will be the major scale notes with a flat 7.
Aeolian will be the natural minor scale notes or the major scale notes with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
Dorian will be the natural minor scale with the b6 sharped back to a natural 6.
Phrygian will be the natural minor scale with a flat 2 added.
Locrian will be the natural minor scale with a flat 2, and a flat 5.

Get yourself three to four riffs for each one. Twenty riffs used a hundred ways.

Need a Dorian riff - b3-2-4-6-8-6-b7-5 Now name it. Lets let that be Dorian # 1. Now get two more.

You will need a Phrygian riff that means your notes will include the 2, b3, b6 and b7. Use those and a couple of passing tones and build three Phrygian riffs.

The vamp is begging for a specific mode have three riffs for all seven modes ready in muscle memory.
Click to expand...

most informative post ever!
 
#6
Exemonium said:
Hmm. Alright. I was kind of thinking that might me a good idea, but didn't know how to tackle the riffs. I spose ill go borrow some that I like and learn to toss them in different chord situations. Maybe switch the ideas the modal ways also.
Click to expand...

Anytime I'm working on a melody (tune) I go to the keyboard. I know the seven notes I need I'm just looking at the most pleasant sounding way of putting them together. Of course write down the ones you think need keeping.

If you have lyrics they play a part in this - we talk and sing in phrases so the lyrics should be in phrases with pauses. Our ears like four note phrases. Three whole / half steps followed with a leap of at least a 3rd. Then pause. The interesting thing is what you do after the leap.

Have fun.
 
#8
Start simple and give the solo emotional direction, building to a peak, then come down, remembering that after the solo, you have to go back to playing bass.

Good luck.

FG
 
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#9
Thanks to another thread revealing how Gary Willis laid much of teh foundation for what Todd Johnson's materials teach, I picked up the Gary Willis, 'Fingerboard Hamony for Bass'

thanks to those who contributed to that

to the point -- somewhere in my skimming and jumping ahead I believe I came acrosss Willis' idea that soloing should avoid the root -- otherwise the 'solo' doesn't have the sound or function of a solo and takes on the usual function of setting the harmonic foundation.
This makes a lot of sense, so I suspect in your solo efforst you're doing more of the foundational work that's done throughout, so start by avoiding the root.
also stealing phrases from the melody, as suggested
and the 3 basic templates from Bert Ligon's 'Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony' and the hundreds of phrase examples might help
 
#11
mambo4 said:
another tidbit for Gary Willis: think of your solo as based on the fifth not the root. so for an A minor 7 vamp, solo off of an E7. The idea is to get your solo away form feelign 'trapped' in that first octave.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a good one from Willis's 101 Tips book! And there are some other applications of the idea, when playing over a 7 sus chord.

He said the challenge of a bass solo is to sound "above" the chords, different from our usual role supporting the bottom of the chord.

And that's a bop concept, really. If you look at a chart for Donna Lee, it's cool (IMHO) how the melody is outlining the upper parts of the changes.
 
#12
Hey Exemonium not sure if these will help you, but they might give you some food for thought.

Here's 3 tutorial vids I recorded ages ago about soloing on static minor chords... Invalid Link Removed

Here's 3 more tutorials about soloing over static dominant chords... Invalid Link Removed

I did these tutorials AGES ago so the video/audio is pretty crummy... but, I'm sure you'll get something from them. There's over 2 hours of material there!

Take it easy,

Scott ;)
 
#14
Try playing across the beat with some stuff that is almost polyrhythmic - phrases in repeated patterns of 3 or 5 eighth or sixteenth notes across the 4/4 groove (especially effective if the phrases cross a bar line).

And a big +1 to having some sort of pattern or structure in mind beforehand. I like to start this sort of solo by stripping the groove right down to the very barest bones and then gradually building everything back until you're throwing the kitchen sink in there. But subtlety isn't my strongest point. :D
 
#16
Pacman said:
Nothing sounds more boring that sticking to the "right" notes.
Click to expand...

In fact, the notes are only part of the story - especially when you're "limiting" your choice of notes because you're vamping over one chord.

Victor Wooten would say "use your 2-10" - other aspects of musicality beside which notes you're playing.
Dynamics - that's huge, as well as using different ranges on your instrument. Go low, go high, go loud, go soft.
Phrasing. Quote the melody. Quote other melodies that fit.
Use space. Repeat yourself - take an idea, let the audience latch on to it, and explore it. Sing stuff to yourself, and play them.
And one last "woo-woo" thought - focus more on what you're feeling (and want to express) in the moment than on what notes you want to play. I'm always amazed at the difference that makes for me, and for how people respond to what I play, when I do it.
 
#17
MalcolmAmos said:
You will need a Phrygian riff that means your notes will include the 2, b3, b6 and b7. The 2 is the characteristic note for a Phrygian riff. Again your one chord vamp should also have the characteristic note in its makeup. Use those and a couple of passing tones and build three Phrygian riffs. Passing tones? Look at the major and minor pentatonic each is made of three chord tones and two passing notes. The 2 & 6 are the major passing notes and the 4 & b7 are the passing notes in a minor pentatonic
Click to expand...

I believe you meant b2. You mentioned b2 earlier in your post. Just to make things clear. Good post!

Don't forget the "other five" notes - the ones that are not in the scale you are selecting your pitch collection from. Chromaticism.

And, there are dozens of Pentatonic scales available, as well as the Modes of the Melodic and Harmonic Minor scales
 
#18
MalcolmAmos said:
One chord vamp = modal. So you play modal. Do a Google.

Which modal notes?
Ionian will be the major scale notes.
Lydian will be the major scale notes with a sharp 4.
Mixolydian will be the major scale notes with a flat 7.
Aeolian will be the natural minor scale notes or the major scale notes with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
Dorian will be the natural minor scale with the b6 sharped back to a natural 6.
Phrygian will be the natural minor scale with a flat 2 added.
Locrian will be the natural minor scale with a flat 2, and a flat 5.

Get yourself three to four riffs for each one. Twenty riffs used a hundred ways.

Need a Dorian riff - b3-2-4-6-8-6-b7-5 Now name it. Lets let that be Dorian # 1. Now get two more. Dorian is a minor mode so you need the b3 and b7 notes and then the natural 6 is the characteristic note of a Dorian riff, make sure the characteristic note gets in your riff. Brings up the point your modal chord vamp should contain the characteristic note. That is why it begs for a specific mode.

You will need a Phrygian riff that means your notes will include the 2, b3, b6 and b7. The 2 is the characteristic note for a Phrygian riff. Again your one chord vamp should also have the characteristic note in its makeup. Use those and a couple of passing tones and build three Phrygian riffs. Passing tones? Look at the major and minor pentatonic each is made of three chord tones and two passing notes. The 2 & 6 are the major passing notes and the 4 & b7 are the passing notes in a minor pentatonic.

The vamp is begging for a specific mode have three riffs for all seven modes ready in muscle memory.
Click to expand...
Nicely put.
 
#20
Listening to other good improvisers will help. I used to listen to a LOT of George Benson (man he is an awesome improviser). You find yourself picking up some of their "moves" so to speak.

Would you really find it easier to solo over a progression ? Static chords are the best ! So much room. The fretboard is your oyster. : )

Also. Gary Willis is a beast and I'm sure his advice on getting away from the root is very good. But I would guess it to be aimed at those having a problem with relying on the root too much..? There are some great solos that hit the root plenty. Fred Wesley (trombone player) comes to mind.
 

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