Some Live Music Thoughts

[climber]

I've been playing live music in bands since 1966. Big bands, small bands, medium bands, duos, trios, quartets, indoors and outdoors. As I've gotten older, now 76, I've changed my view on what I bring, and what I'm willing to bring to a given gig.

I own 4 JBL recent Eon cabs, stands, lots of cables, mics and a 12 channel Mackie mixer. I schlepped some amount of it around to small, medium and large gigs for a long time. That has changed over the past 5 years. For small and medium gigs I bring 1 or at most 2 Eons, I plug 1 or 2 58's directly into the Eon and if needed for a second or a monitor I Jack them together. I only bring the mixer if I have more singers full horn section or need more monitors with separate feeds.

Guitarist plays a Tele into modded Deluxe, keyboard is either B3 or late 70's Rhodes and I play thru a Streamliner 900 into RevSound 1-12. The band is loud. But the guys k ow if they can't hear me, they are TOO LOUD. And I won't turn up!

As you see from pictures, the PA speaker is behind me!!! I hear myself great. Everybody in the band hears me sing and balances themselves to the vocal. Sure, I kno this won't work everywhere… We play 60-150 people rooms, not 250-300 seat rooms. But when we play those places they have their own PA. I get hired a lot because the owners dig it, servers can take orders and the patrons don't get blasted out. Plus we are a GREAT jam band.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Nice.

What is the thing strapped to the end of the Hammond?

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO, those who figure out how to put on a good show without blowing out the room tend to get more work.

While I wouldn't generally take this approach, I have worked in bands that did. Putting the speakers behind you, means it's louder on stage than anywhere else. Also, it tends to put fairly significant limits on how loud you can turn up before the system breaks over into feedback.

 

[Geri O]

Nice.

What is the thing strapped to the end of the Hammond?

That's one of a pair of hand trucks commonly used to transport Hammond B3s (and the various Hammond console models).

 

[Groove Doctor]

That's one of a pair of hand trucks commonly used to transport Hammond B3s (and the various Hammond console models).

Could you please send me or post here a few photos of this hand truck setup? I haven't seen one like that here in Australia.

My bother has a Hammond and could DIY one. Thanks in advance.

 

[Geri O]

Could you please send me or post here a few photos of this hand truck setup? I haven't seen one like that here in Australia.

My bother has a Hammond and could DIY one. Thanks in advance.

Sure....

Here's a link where they can be bought, but my gosh, they've gone waaaaay up!

Good luck!

 

[tshapiro]

I've been playing live music in bands since 1966. Big bands, small bands, medium bands, duos, trios, quartets, indoors and outdoors. As I've gotten older, now 76, I've changed my view on what I bring, and what I'm willing to bring to a given gig.

I own 4 JBL recent Eon cabs, stands, lots of cables, mics and a 12 channel Mackie mixer. I schlepped some amount of it around to small, medium and large gigs for a long time. That has changed over the past 5 years. For small and medium gigs I bring 1 or at most 2 Eons, I plug 1 or 2 58's directly into the Eon and if needed for a second or a monitor I Jack them together. I only bring the mixer if I have more singers full horn section or need more monitors with separate feeds.

Guitarist plays a Tele into modded Deluxe, keyboard is either B3 or late 70's Rhodes and I play thru a Streamliner 900 into RevSound 1-12. The band is loud. But the guys k ow if they can't hear me, they are TOO LOUD. And I won't turn up!

As you see from pictures, the PA speaker is behind me!!! I hear myself great. Everybody in the band hears me sing and balances themselves to the vocal. Sure, I kno this won't work everywhere… We play 60-150 people rooms, not 250-300 seat rooms. But when we play those places they have their own PA. I get hired a lot because the owners dig it, servers can take orders and the patrons don't get blasted out. Plus we are a GREAT jam band.
View attachment 5338772 View attachment 5338773

Thanks for sharing! While you're focusing on the setup and make a side note on the band volume awareness, I actually think band volume awareness is the key. My band usually plays much larger venues and we typically roll in with our own PA and back line regardless of what's there. Easily 10x the gear that you're bringing. And, the 2 things we regularly hear are that we are the easiest band to mix and we have the most controlled volume of any band that plays the venue. What both our bands have in common is a high awareness of volume. In several large venues that have soundmen, we actually mix our own FOH from the stage bc the the soundguy himself struggles to keep the volume under control. One thing that throws them off with us is that we have a huge following and while the place is typically half full on a regular night, it's packed when we play. Often, the sound guy gets too excited, pumps up the volume, and does not carve out enough room for the vocals and it becomes a feedback fest. In those situations, we tell the venue managers that we'll only play their place again if we run the sound. We are doing that at 3 of the largest venues we play.

 

[pfschim]

Hey OP, it's cool you are working on keeping volume under control ... makes a ton of sense and is a great approach. I'm in a very similar situation with managing volume in any given venue. But, I gotta wonder at your statement that "the band is loud" .... I'm sure the band is audible, but how loud can you really be with a 1x12 ? Have you ever run a dB meter to see how loud it really is ? Just curious.

Also curious about the overall volume as it relates to the PA main(s) being behind you. I'm guessing it works for you but IME, that's a feedback situation waiting to happen ... unless the band is very low volume.

Not arguing at all, as I totally agree with the general approach to managing overall volume.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Sure....

View attachment 5339142

Here's a link where they can be bought, but my gosh, they've gone waaaaay up!

Good luck!

Thanks a million!!!

PS. I didn't see the link for them. What's the brand/company name?

 

[Ostie]

Amazing, I haven't seen a KB player schlep a real B3 in years. Who's the poor soul who has to help him?

 

[pfschim]

Amazing, I haven't seen a KB player schlep a real B3 in years. Who's the poor soul who has to help him?

Just before I Covid hit I was gigging with a great keyboard player who used a B3 along with a Wurli electric piano. But he had cut the things down so drastically that they were not a huge PITA to move.

 

[Ostie]

Just before I Covid hit I was gigging with a great keyboard player who used a B3 along with a Wurli electric piano. But he had cut the things down so drastically that they were not a huge PITA to move.

I played a few gigs with a KB player a couple years ago who used a KB module and a Leslie. It sounded awesome.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Groove Doctor.

Jansen Dual Trucks are the only authentic new version of the old Roll-Or-Kari dollies that I know of.

Jansen Dual Trucks - Move a Piano with One Person

The Roll-Or-Karri dollies have a toggle feature on the wheels that works by stepping on the actuating bar to lift the dollies onto the wheels after strapping the dollies to the organ. It would take some fabrication skills to make your own.

I was fortunate enough to find a set of the originals on eBay locally that were part of an auction for a (gigantic) late 1970s/early 1980s electronic organ (that was worth absolutely nothing). I bought the whole setup for fifty bucks, and had to scrap the organ. I told the seller when I went to pick up the organ and dollies that they could keep the organ. They refused that offer. I tried to donate the organ to a couple of charity thrift stores to no avail.

I use mine to move my 1963 Hammond A102. (the Roll-Or-Karri dollies are not shown here).

The A102 is better than a B3 in that it includes two power amps, and three speakers in the console. Otherwise it is the same instrument as the B3. It is however not really made to haul around with the "French Provincial" style cabinet with its spindly legs and the added weight of the amps and speakers.

The organ in OPs post looks like an A100, which is preferable to my A102 because it does not have the delicate legs that my A102 has, and does also have the built-in "tone cabinet" of all the A series "console organs". It is less likely to sustain damage while being moved. The A100 is probably the most desirable of any vintage Hammond aside from the B15.

When I bought the 1967 Leslie in the above photo, I went through the same thing in that I tried to leave the organ that was part of the deal with the seller, but he insisted that take it away.

I doubt that I will live long enough to learn how to play this beautiful setup.

(climber, sorry for the derail. Please forgive me.)

 

[mambo4]

Isn't a PA Speaker behind the mic a recipe for feedback?

 

[climber]

Hey OP, it's cool you are working on keeping volume under control ... makes a ton of sense and is a great approach. I'm in a very similar situation with managing volume in any given venue. But, I gotta wonder at your statement that "the band is loud" .... I'm sure the band is audible, but how loud can you really be with a 1x12 ? Have you ever run a dB meter to see how loud it really is ? Just curious.

Also curious about the overall volume as it relates to the PA main(s) being behind you. I'm guessing it works for you but IME, that's a feedback situation waiting to happen ... unless the band is very low volume.

Not arguing at all, as I totally agree with the general approach to managing overall volume.

I think you'd be surprised about how loud that 112 can get, not to mention the Deluxe. I don't have an actual meter. My Apple Watch said we were 101 at our last gig and that was more than loud enough for me. I have not been having feedback issues. Go figure…

 

[climber]

Amazing, I haven't seen a KB player schlep a real B3 in years. Who's the poor soul who has to help him?

he can move it totally by himself with the dollys and a hand truck for the Leslie. He has a van with ramps that pull out.

 

[climber]

And yes, volume awareness IS the name of the game IMNSHO.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

I've been playing live music in bands since 1966. Big bands, small bands, medium bands, duos, trios, quartets, indoors and outdoors. As I've gotten older, now 76, I've changed my view on what I bring, and what I'm willing to bring to a given gig.

I own 4 JBL recent Eon cabs, stands, lots of cables, mics and a 12 channel Mackie mixer. I schlepped some amount of it around to small, medium and large gigs for a long time. That has changed over the past 5 years. For small and medium gigs I bring 1 or at most 2 Eons, I plug 1 or 2 58's directly into the Eon and if needed for a second or a monitor I Jack them together. I only bring the mixer if I have more singers full horn section or need more monitors with separate feeds.

Guitarist plays a Tele into modded Deluxe, keyboard is either B3 or late 70's Rhodes and I play thru a Streamliner 900 into RevSound 1-12. The band is loud. But the guys k ow if they can't hear me, they are TOO LOUD. And I won't turn up!

As you see from pictures, the PA speaker is behind me!!! I hear myself great. Everybody in the band hears me sing and balances themselves to the vocal. Sure, I kno this won't work everywhere… We play 60-150 people rooms, not 250-300 seat rooms. But when we play those places they have their own PA. I get hired a lot because the owners dig it, servers can take orders and the patrons don't get blasted out. Plus we are a GREAT jam band.
View attachment 5338772 View attachment 5338773

I get it man!

 

[Ostie]

he can move it totally by himself with the dollys and a hand truck for the Leslie. He has a van with ramps that pull out.

That's dedication.

 

[brianrost]

I'm sure the band is audible, but how loud can you really be with a 1x12 ?

A Bergantino NXT 1-12 is rated at 98db @ 2.83v / 1-meter. (2.83V usually equals 1 watt). To get 10 more dB the wattage has to be 10x, so with 10 watts it's 108 dB, with 100 watts it's 118 dB and if it's 400 watts (max power handling for a Bergantino NXT 1-12), add another 6 dB—that's 124 dB at one meter from the cab. That's near the point where pain sets in for most people.

Since the crowd is going to be farther away, the dB drops by about 6 dB when the distance doubles. At 2 meters 118 dB, at 4 meters 112 dB, at 8 meters, 106 dB, at 16 meters 100 dB. So depending on how far away a listener is, the level they hear changes.

To most people 100 dB is already very loud and 120 dB is the threshold of pain. Now considering that there's the rest of the band adding to the overall volume, you can see that in many rooms, with a 400 watt amp into a Bergantino 1-12 and no PA support you should be plenty loud.

The specs for other 1-12 cabs vary in terms of power handling or sensitivity. A Mesa Subway 112 also handles 400W and the sensitivity is 97.5 dB at 1 W/1 meter…only 0.5 dB less than the Berg. An Aguilar SL112 only handles 250 watts but has a sensitivity of 99.9 dB at 1W/1M so almost 2dB more than the Berg and the difference between 250W and 400W is a little less than 3 dB, so it's essentially a wash...it can get just as loud as the Berg with less power.